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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Albert,<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:VI1PR0402MB3488BF1546E45D975B71359DDAA30@VI1PR0402MB3488.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
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<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}</style>Let
me focus on one of the problems we encountered to make my point.
On out platform, as example on one of the 3D websites, we wanted
to allow text chats among visitors in the 3D environment.
Therefore we needed an equivalent of a textarea to popup in the 3D
space, with text wrapping, scrollbars and the possibility to set
the text cursor at any required place by clicking on the text.
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In this example, do you wish the text chat window to be a full 3D
object that is positioned in 3D space? This would be something
that has front, sides, and back; so it would be possible to move
around/away/towards the object. This would be (in concept) putting
an HTML textarea on a 3D object in your virtual space. Another
alternative would be to overlay the HTML textarea region over the
virtual space creating a heads-up display. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In the first case, the chat region is part of the virtual space
and needs to interact and be controlled by VR application. In the
second case, the chat area remains under HTML control. Whatever
controls the VR space would interact with the application through
the normal DOM interface. The second case has the advantage of
being able to draw upon all of the tools of the browser to assist
the user, especially if the user is disabled and requires (for
example) sight to text handling.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>XSeen was designed and built with full HTML integration. There is
one online example that comes close to your concepts, through it
uses fixed labels rather than a textarea --
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://xseen.org/example-capabilities/complex-test-scenes/#3">https://xseen.org/example-capabilities/complex-test-scenes/#3</a>. The
labels are HTML div elements that can contain any HTML, including
textarea. Control of the contents of each label region is
completely through the DOM, so a 3rd-party text chat (or voice to
text chat) could easily be used.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Leonard Daly</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:VI1PR0402MB3488BF1546E45D975B71359DDAA30@VI1PR0402MB3488.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
It seems to me that such a basic feature should be included in a
future X3D version, and not be left as a quite challenging
JavaScript implementation.</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
To me, it is in the very nature of the declarative approach to
supply tags for these common features, although they will only
become common when 3D will be used more for business
implementations (not only as part of a 2D page).</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
Albert Jan Wonnink </div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Van:</b>
Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"><brutzman@nps.edu></a><br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> zondag 16 december 2018 06:15<br>
<b>Aan:</b> Albert Jan Wonnink<br>
<b>CC:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com">vmarchetti@kshell.com</a>; X3D Graphics public mailing
list<br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form support</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span
style="font-size:11pt">
<div class="PlainText">Since X3D is presentation layer, and
since X3D content can coexist within HTML and alongside
SVG and exchange events throughout (see X3DOM and X_ITE
implementations), there are many possibilities. Given the
flexibility of both HTML Script code and embedded X3D
Script nodes, as well as common use of Javascript, all
manner of integration appears to be possible today with
more forthcoming. Since the Anchor node activates the the
powerful and diverse functionality of a url, much
responsiveness is available even without scripting.<br>
<br>
The X3D v4 specification evolution is aimed at good
coexistence of 2D/3D/behavior markup for authors,
emphasizing HTML5/DOM integration while adding a number of
additional excellent features. The X3D v4.1 specification
will follow closely afterwards, adding functionality for
virtual/augmented/mixed reality applications. All this
work is steadily progressing. As ever with these
specifications, hardware and software independence is
achieved by defining page and model functionality rather
than attempting to legislate browser software patterns
(which morph regularly). We no longer wait for "browser
company permission" and instead utilize the shared
declarative power of open standards.<br>
<br>
More on X3D v4.0 and v4.1 is found at<br>
<br>
X3D Version 4<br>
<a href="http://www.web3d.org/x3d4"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/x3d4</a><br>
<br>
X3D version 4.0 Development<br>
<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/wiki/index.php/X3D_version_4.0_Development"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.web3d.org/wiki/index.php/X3D_version_4.0_Development</a><br>
<br>
X3DOM: instant 3D the HTML way!<br>
<a href="https://www.x3dom.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.x3dom.org</a><br>
<br>
X_ITE X3D Browser: Have you seen this?<br>
<a
href="http://create3000.de/x_ite/getting-started"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://create3000.de/x_ite/getting-started</a><br>
<br>
Meanwhile for what you describe, the Anchor node is a
powerful way to achieve form capabilities by associating
url links with selectable geometry. Vince is providing
great guidance, you may also find KeySensor to be an even
simpler variant that accepts single keystrokes, rather
than strings.<br>
<br>
Further links to resources for each node are found in X3D
Tooltips. X3D Scene Authoring Hints should also be
useful.<br>
<br>
<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#Anchor"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#Anchor</a><br>
<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#TouchSensor"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#TouchSensor</a><br>
<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#StringSensor"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#StringSensor</a><br>
<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#KeySensor"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#KeySensor</a><br>
<br>
<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dSceneAuthoringHints.html#urls"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dSceneAuthoringHints.html#urls</a><br>
<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dSceneAuthoringHints.html#Scripts"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dSceneAuthoringHints.html#Scripts</a><br>
<br>
Please don't get stuck, trouble reports and progress
reports are all welcome.<br>
<br>
Good luck with your work, it sounds interesting! 8)<br>
<br>
On 12/11/2018 2:52 AM, Albert Jan Wonnink wrote:<br>
> If one can only have planes (or maybe even curved
surfaces) having 2d browser content in a 3D SceneGraph a
large part of the described issue would be resolved.<br>
> I thing the 2D and 3D browsing environment should be
reciprocal to be most effective. But I couldn't find this
described yet, and I can imagine this is viewed and
tackled another way.<br>
> <br>
> Albert Jan Wonnink<br>
> <br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> *Van:* Albert Jan Wonnink
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:awonnink@hotmail.com"><awonnink@hotmail.com></a><br>
> *Verzonden:* maandag 10 december 2018 00:09<br>
> *Aan:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com">vmarchetti@kshell.com</a><br>
> *CC:* X3D Graphics public mailing list<br>
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form
support<br>
> Thank you Vince for your reply.<br>
> <br>
> The Anchor is indeed what I somehow failed to find
earlier in the specification.<br>
> <br>
> The situation we envision is when XR glasses will be
commonly used to access 3D websites that have similar
possibilities for businesses as the current 2D sites. This
means that 3D website builders should be able surround a
(part of a) text, an image or a 3D object with an anchor.
Also one needs normal text fields, radio- and checkboxes
etc. for users to be able to fill-in their choices and
post back to the server.<br>
> <br>
> Is this already possible to do in X3D?<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regards,<br>
> <br>
> Albert Jan<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> *Van:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com">vmarchetti@kshell.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com"><vmarchetti@kshell.com></a><br>
> *Verzonden:* zondag 9 december 2018 22:43<br>
> *Aan:* Albert Jan Wonnink<br>
> *CC:* X3D Graphics public mailing list<br>
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form
support<br>
> Albert<br>
> <br>
> X3D does supports responding to mouse clicks on an
elements of a 3D scene graph through the TouchSensor node
(<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/pointingsensor.html#TouchSensor"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/pointingsensor.html#TouchSensor</a>)
, and there is also functionality of following a URL
attached<br>
> to a shape in the Anchor node: <a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/networking.html#Anchor"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/networking.html#Anchor</a><br>
> <br>
> There is a basic example of the Anchor node on the
X_ITE website: <a
href="http://create3000.de/users-guide/components/networking/anchor/#example"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://create3000.de/users-guide/components/networking/anchor/#example</a><br>
> <br>
> I'm not sure what form support would mean in the
context of a 3D Scenegraph, but there is a specification
for capturing and responding to keyboard presses in the
StringSensor node:
<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/keyboard.html#StringSensor"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/keyboard.html#StringSensor</a><br>
> <br>
> Can you say more about how you would like to extend
the familiar interface patterns of hyperlinks and input
forms into the 3D and VR worlds?<br>
> <br>
> With Regards.<br>
> Vince Marchetti<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>> On Dec 9, 2018, at 3:36 PM, Albert Jan Wonnink
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:awonnink@hotmail.com">awonnink@hotmail.com</a> <<a
href="mailto:awonnink@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:awonnink@hotmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> About a year ago we started a proof of concept of
a browser suitable for HoloLens and supporting business
processes. We choose X3D as basic format, but because of
lack of knowledge of the full specification, and having
the focus on the technology, we added our own tags using a
separate namespace.<br>
>><br>
>> The most important features for which we couldn't
find the X3D implementation where hyperlinks- and form
support.<br>
>><br>
>> Does X3D support these? If so, where can I find
the specification?<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Albert Jan Wonnink<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> x3d-public mailing list<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">x3d-public@web3d.org</a> <<a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>
>> <a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> x3d-public mailing list<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
> <a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><br>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
all the best, Don<br>
-- <br>
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a><br>
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000
USA +1.831.656.2149<br>
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics <a
href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
x3d-public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
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