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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Andreas,</div>
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cite="mid:CAKdk67vw=H+-az8ECPCz749+UJgdVn-aRSDTsg59rXTj0ggiGA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>Thanks, Leonard. Well, the Chrome and Mozilla WebXR
coverage did seem to emphasize AR with AR sdks now being
available for ios and android, a bit prematurely as it seems.</div>
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<p><br>
</p>
<p>The libraries ARCore (Android) and ARKit (iOS) provide much of
the needed support for AR work. They include the SLAM
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_mapping">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_mapping</a>)
algorithm for translation tracking. ARCore was built into Canary
(previous developer version of Chrome with AR support). Apple is
about to release a new product/OS (not sure which) that has a lot
of 3D support built into the OS. It is important to note that
Apple is not an active participant in the W3C WG.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
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cite="mid:CAKdk67vw=H+-az8ECPCz749+UJgdVn-aRSDTsg59rXTj0ggiGA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">The API has a mode to switch between VR, AR and
Magic Window (mono on the screen but following head movement).
There is an Anchor extension spec. effort which has just
started but would seem critical for AR.</div>
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</blockquote>
<p>It is not so much a dynamic switch, but something that is
determined at run-time. For example, you can't do AR if there is
no camera available. There is dynamic shift between magic window
and full-screen.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKdk67vw=H+-az8ECPCz749+UJgdVn-aRSDTsg59rXTj0ggiGA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">WebXR has made the decision to not include any
computer vision requirements. Should X3D do the same ?</div>
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<p>Not commenting on X3D. The decision was not made just yet. It is
not being pursued because of potential privacy considerations.
This explainer change
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/immersive-web/privacy-and-security/pull/15/files?short_path=4298cc0#diff-4298cc0cf8291ec04a133a6b0c0d459c">https://github.com/immersive-web/privacy-and-security/pull/15/files?short_path=4298cc0#diff-4298cc0cf8291ec04a133a6b0c0d459c</a>)
is a good starting point for consider of privacy/security
considerations.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKdk67vw=H+-az8ECPCz749+UJgdVn-aRSDTsg59rXTj0ggiGA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">From what I understand the Anchor spec. will
provide a way to link vision of the real world with a virtual
world. Should there be a similar link for X3D ?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Is hololens the only remaining AR headset ? <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>No, Magic Leap (active participant). There are several cardboard
equivalents (visual projection of computer generated graphics into
the viewer's line of sight). I also see news articles about
different AR headsets, but I don't have that information right
here.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKdk67vw=H+-az8ECPCz749+UJgdVn-aRSDTsg59rXTj0ggiGA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">Perhaps there are too many questions yet to
really start diving into AR, even in a speculative manner.</div>
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<p>Actually this is a good time because you might have some answers
when the WG starts to really get into it.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Leonard Daly<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
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cite="mid:CAKdk67vw=H+-az8ECPCz749+UJgdVn-aRSDTsg59rXTj0ggiGA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">Andreas</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">---on the
phone---</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Feb 5, 2019, 11:43 PM Leonard Daly
<<a href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Leonard.Daly@realism.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-cite-prefix">Andreas,</div>
<div class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-cite-prefix">This
version (V1.0) of the device API does not attempt to
address augmented reality (where a portion of the
displayed scene is provided by the "real world"). That
will be address in V1.1 (planned for Summer 2020).
This version is strictly for virtual reality where the
entire scene is computer generated. It is difficult to
use at the moment because it requires support from the
browser environment. It might be possible to extend
the WebVR polyfill to support this API for much (but
probably not all) features.<br>
</div>
<div class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-cite-prefix">There
is an issue in the Immersive Web Community Group to
address declarative languages. The issue was recently
opened and is accepting comments.</div>
<div class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-cite-prefix">This
may be a time for X3D to really clarify how it is
going to fit into the web eco-system by answering the
questions:</div>
<div class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-cite-prefix">
<ul>
<li>Does X3D handle AR content/scenes?</li>
<li>If not, where in XR spectrum does X3D apply?</li>
<li>Will X3D be compliant with the Immersive Web
specification?</li>
<ul>
<li>If so, what has to change in X3D? <br>
</li>
<ul>
<li>What will happen when X3D is used in a
non-browser environment?<br>
</li>
</ul>
<li>If not, in what environments will X3D operate?<br>
</li>
<li>How does the SAI need to change? (If X3D is
not going to be IW spec compliant, there may be
no changes necessary.)<br>
</li>
<li>What happens to non-ECMAScript/JavaScript
language bindings?</li>
</ul>
</ul>
<p>This article that Andreas links below describes
what is necessary to test WebXR in Chrome. You will
need to sign up.</p>
<p>Leonard Daly<br>
</p>
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</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-quote-pre">Thanks, good to see. I found this summary helpful as well.
<a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/05/welcome-to-immersive" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/05/welcome-to-immersive</a>
WebXR is actually available now, but web developers have to request a
revocable permission token to use the API with Chrome.
Easiest to use for experimentation is a polyfill using the now
superceded WebVR API. I feel only actually trying to use it will be
able to discover issues.
I see Layers are still there. In WebVR they were never supported, I think.
X3D was not designed for AR (or perhaps it was ?) but the SAI would
provides a way to feed in the real world into a Scene, using a
backend.
There just does not seem be to a declarative interface to the real
world, if that even would make sense.
How do you best/declaratively provide a floor or a tracked table as
recognized by a smart camera to a X3D scene which then lets you
interact (see how a new couch would fit) ?
-Andreas
On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 3:25 PM <a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public-request@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public-request@web3d.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-quote-pre">Send x3d-public mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Immersive Web Device API Specification (Leonard Daly)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 08:49:38 -0800
From: Leonard Daly <a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"><Leonard.Daly@realism.com></a>
To: X3D Public <a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a>
Subject: [x3d-public] Immersive Web Device API Specification
Message-ID: <a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:6f0e735b-21f6-748f-9bf6-14f3ebee247f@realism.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"><6f0e735b-21f6-748f-9bf6-14f3ebee247f@realism.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
The W3C has just published the first public WORKING DRAFT of the WebXR
Device API (<a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.w3.org/TR/2019/WD-webxr-20190205/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.w3.org/TR/2019/WD-webxr-20190205/</a>). This is not
intended to be a fully fleshed out specification, but an early draft to
elicit comments from the public.
The API is the interface expressed in JavaScript between the user code
and the browser that controls much of the WebXR device functionality or
information. This includes things like setting up the session, handling
device orientation data, etc. It does not include the rendering
pipeline, and you still must call window.requestAnimationFrame for each
change to the display.
A very useful document is the WebXR Device API Explainer
(<a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/w3c/webvr/blob/master/explainer.md" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/w3c/webvr/blob/master/explainer.md</a>). This document
describes in non-spec language the philosophy behind the spec document
and may include more information than the spec WD in areas that are not
fully written.
If you find an issue (or more than one) with the spec document you can
report to the <a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:public-immersive-web@w3.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">public-immersive-web@w3.org</a> list (you need to be a member
of the list (see
<a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-immersive-web/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-immersive-web/</a>) or to any
Immersive Web WG member
(<a class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=109735&order=org&public=1" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=109735&order=org&public=1</a>).
Of particular interest are
1. items that differ from the Explainer
2. items that cannot be done in JavaScript
3. items that are inconsistent within the WD specification
4. items that conflict with other W3C standards.
--
*Leonard Daly*
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-quote-pre">--
Andreas Plesch
Waltham, MA 02453
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="m_-8080640683349446722moz-signature">-- <br>
<font
class="m_-8080640683349446722tahoma,arial,helvetica
m_-8080640683349446722san
m_-8080640683349446722serif" color="#333366"> <font
size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Futureto</i></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
</font></div>
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