<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>When I speak of publish/subscribe and many to many, I am talking about the relationships similar to:</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>{Spread/Gather, Join/Split, Multiplex/Demultiplex, Publish/Subscribe}<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>How do these apply to your situation?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>John</p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at">Christoph Valentin</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, March 31, 2019 3:08 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John Carlson</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [x3d-public] Semantics of X3D Work. How dotheseoperators/verbs/actions/predicates fit into the X3D ontology?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi John,<br><br>I programmed proprietary languages like C.H.I.L.L. and PROTEL-2, nowadays rather C and C++.<br><br>X3D, ecmascript and Visual Basic just for recreation :-)<br><br>However, knowing this or that programming language is not the key. The key is to know the needs of your customer :-)<br><br>All the best<br>Christoph <br>-- <br>Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Am 31.03.19, 21:56, John Carlson <yottzumm@gmail.com> schrieb:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>I’ve been a database/web programmer for my career, I had an opportunity or two to create a brand new language, and another to create a distributed user interface protocol (I made the library both distributed and non-distributed).<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>You will see a lot of SQL/REST/CRUDGR/UNIX in my thinking. I don’t know if that’s good or bad. I’m sort of asking if we need a new underlying technology for collaboration, or if existing technologies are good enough. What if we could abstract away the database and filesystem (ambient authority, yuck, relations, yuck) metaphors at the highest levels—something like Prolog maybe? My user interface used (class_id object_id (object2) attribute_value1 (object3) attribute_value2) to update the other side, and … for non-modified objects and attributes. Update may be the most primitive operation. JavaScript argument lists are terribly tempting, but not very structural.<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>Are you familiar with how Azure and Heroku use Git to store server app code? Azure reloads your server if you update GitHub, and Heroku, it happens when you push to Heroku. I don’t know how to support more than one GitHub repository, but we’re smart guys and could probably figure it out. Maybe have a integrator repository to integrate all other repositories. Maybe we could load X3D files directly from Git? I haven’t tried that yet.<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>John<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at">Christoph Valentin</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, March 31, 2019 2:10 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John Carlson</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Aw: [x3d-public] Semantics of X3D Work. How do theseoperators/verbs/actions/predicates fit into the X3D ontology?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>John,<br><br>I am not a scientist. I am a simple telco programmer, who's done a few considerations about virtual universes during a hobby project. <br><br>Anyway, I will do my best.<br><br>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a concept of capturing a collaboration in a virtual world? What file format is this? Christoph?<br><br>Collaboration is an activity that is done by subjects. You can store logs about a collaboration, but a collaboration per se is not a file format, as far as I think to understand.<br><br>For virtual universes, I see three levels of collaboration. <br><br><br>1) Collaborating on the construction of Composite Scenes.<br><br>We need some BCPs about how to make scenes from components (i.e. from geographic infrastructure, avatars, models, modules, ......)<br><br>Each component can be sourced by a different project/repository. File format is any Web3D format (vrml, x3d, ......) <br><br>Maybe some tools will be needed to "compile" composite scenes from components. <br><br>Some community could virtually gather every now and then to "put the components together for on-line collaboration (3)" <br><br>2) Collaborating on one component<br><br>Standard git / svn / ..... procedures<br><br>3) on-line collaboration <br><br>N users collaborate in a multiuser scene to<br><br>- add/remove objects to/from the scene during runtime<br>- change the network state of objects <br>- send network events to objects<br>- and so on<br><br>(1) and (2) would use x3d / vrml / ...... file format <br>(3) format of network states and events tbd. <br><br>All the best<br>Christoph<br>-- <br>Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>Am 31.03.19, 20:01, John Carlson <yottzumm@gmail.com> schrieb:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Predicates for Work: (Christoph, read last line of email)<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Prototype/Design/Storyboard<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Act/Perform/Operate<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Build/Script/Develop<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Research and Brainstorm<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Prepare/Plan/Train<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Direct/Desire/Specify/Select/Goal Set/Target<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Strategize<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Discuss/Trade/Network/Meet (related to Input/Output from previous email)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Handle/Delegate<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>I’ll call this 90’s and 00’s thinking “my work generation”<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>I’m looking for an ontology for work, in particular the top level predicates or verbs that all work verbs are a subclass of. For example, much of this came out of the military’s ontology namely:<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Operations<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Logistics<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Tactics<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Strategy<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>I’ll call the latter “70’s thinking.” I was introduced to it in the late 80’s though<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>What is the process or system behind X3D? What is 10’s thinking? What is 20’s thinking? Do we dare ontologize our work?<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>If you look into the 70’s thinking, you can see why AI was focused on Scripts and Goals. Now that we’re “agile,” what verbs do we use to describe work? Collaborate? Is that the top level predicate? How is this reflected in computer science research on semantics?<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Would it be useful to look at a Thesaurus? I feel like an old geezer bringing up ancient technology.<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>If we’re creating 3D virtual worlds, why not create a virtual world we can work in? Can I buy an office “at” Amazon? How might “buying an office” invert the work world? Can I invest in virtual offices?<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Do we need a X3D work working group under the semantic group? “X3D in the working world”<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>What difficulties might be faced bringing our work into virtual reality or augmented reality? What can we help with? Or do we need to bring computers out of their fancy boxes, ala dynamicland? What is this thing we don’t use to program, the webcam? Here are 2 more verbs we might use in the 20’s:<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Capture (beyond motion capture, capturing intent)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Project<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Gamers already have this cold.<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Where is Second Life and Open Croquet these days? What can we learn from them to not repeat? How do we enable 3D in work?<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>So 3 predicates, Capture, Collaborate, Project (Capture/Project is I/O). Others?<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>What does Collaborate look like? Is it more I/O? Is it more than just humans now? How does a chat bot ask questions of me?<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>How do we input and output collaborations? Git and SVN? Can we duplicate Git’s success for other professsions? Is anyone using git to store virtual worlds? Michaelis?<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>Is there a concept of capturing a collaboration in a virtual world? What file format is this? Christoph?<o:p></o:p></p><p> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>John<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'>_______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing list x3d-public@web3d.org http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p style='margin-left:4.8pt'> </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>