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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hmm. On my surfaces, I offset a small distance to get a tangent/normal. So if I could do it with derivatives and recursion, that would work well.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I watched the youtube video. They seemed to indicate that declarative graphics was “done” with webComponents. That is, if you can load a glTF model with an element, you are done. Only one implementation of webGPU on Macs with Canary (is this a push by Apple?)</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>They didn’t make any statements of compatibility between WebGL and WebGPU.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Expectation seems to be that WebGPU will be implemented in web components for the most part.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>More info here:</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/spec/">https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/spec/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>What the impact on desktop applications?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>John</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com">GPU Group</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, May 13, 2019 3:31 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Vulcan, Metal, WebGPU impact on x3d NG</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>DXR (directX) and RTX (Vulkan) can raytrace in real-time on capable (primarily recent RTX series nVidia) GPUs.</p><div><p class=MsoNormal>- DXR (DirectX) will run in fallback mode on slightly older GPUs iet GTX</p><div><p class=MsoNormal>- that may relate to PBR, like Blender Disney or shader materials</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- can do 'computational geometry' - no triangles, you write a shader to decide what to do with a ray</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- otherwise triangles is builtin</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But how would it all work with web3d?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hypothesis: on mouse-up or button press you could raytrace the last frame.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Doug Sanden</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 1:46 PM Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>There is a new generation of low level graphics programming which aims<br>to (slowly) replace OpenGL. I think the goal is to better match modern<br>GPU hardware capabilities. These interfaces are becoming more widely<br>used. For example, Vulcan is used increasingly by games and Chrome<br>Canary on Macs now has WebGPU support:<br><br><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2JzIUIHIhc" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2JzIUIHIhc</a><br><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGPU" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGPU</a><br><br><a href="https://doc.babylonjs.com/extensions/webgpu" target="_blank">https://doc.babylonjs.com/extensions/webgpu</a><br><br>So we may ask if development of X3D would be impacted by these new technologies.<br><br>One might say, X3D is high level and abstract and therefore only<br>implementations in X3D browsers are affected.<br><br>But it is also important to realize that there is a pretty strong<br>connection from OpenGL to Inventor to VRML to X3D. In fact, some X3D<br>nodes are direct reflections of OpenGL constructs.<br><br>So these new low level technologies may be good opportunity to see if<br>X3D should adapt. I do not know much about those technologies but one<br>common theme seems to be less or no distinction with compute programs<br>(shaders) and graphics programs (shaders) on the GPU, better sharing<br>between CPU and GPU, and also shared memory on the GPU for parallel<br>access by many GPU units. Wikipedia has some overviews.<br><br>All web 3d frameworks are currently WebGL based. It will be<br>interesting to see how their abstractions fit with WebGPU, the<br>designated successor to WebGL.<br><br>As a concrete matter, it seems likely that the Programmable shaders<br>component would be affected. For example, WebGPU uses WHLSL:<br><a href="https://github.com/gpuweb/WHLSL" target="_blank">https://github.com/gpuweb/WHLSL</a><br><br>It may make sense to start thinking about these interfaces early for<br>those of us so inclined,<br><br>-Andreas<br><br>-- <br>Andreas Plesch<br>Waltham, MA 02453<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>