<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I think the main reason X3D has not taken off is IMHO there’s no “network effect.” That is, none of my friend and relatives even consider VRML or X3D. How many people here have the same absence in their lives?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Can we even consider a networking component that doesn’t have HTTPS? What if the protocol is language independent?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>LIRCOM to the rescue! I’ll have to boot up my laptop to find it.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>John Carlson</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John Carlson</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, October 8, 2019 2:52 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com">GPU Group</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [x3d-public] Removal of Layout component in X3D v4</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I think a networking component is good, if only for chat or sharing position information in a shared virtual world. I agree that a second application can be used for communication. Position information is more world related, and I think should be integrated with x3d, just as avatars are.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Secondly, I imagine myself using my voice or body movement to create virtual worlds, in an accessible sense.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I’ve sort of being looking into blockly or scratch blocks to create scenegraphs. Is anyone else interested? Note that blockly produces python, JavaScript, lua, etc.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Holger, don’t forget html5 as an option for x3d v4.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We should also consider the potentially ad hoc nature of a networked virtual world, or serendipity. There at a minimum should be a way of communicating either email address or skype id, in world.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com">GPU Group</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, October 8, 2019 1:38 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Removal of Layout component in X3D v4<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Holger, Michalis et al,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I third both motions.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>1) Layout/Layer - I remember thinking there was something a bit strange and fuzzy-thought maybe Scene:Layer and Layout:Layer would make some sense as long as you can route or hyper-route between them, in other words instead of Layer as a node type buried in a scene, it could be a hyperscene of some sort.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>So maybe some refactoring. But seemed handy - I like it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>2) DIS - I implemented just so I could cross the FULL finish line for bragging rights, but no one has asked for it, and I keep it disabled in the browser unless specifically turned on by commandline option by user. It doesn't fit well with what we are doing -some military-specific nodes- but other multi-player designs might be interesting perhaps at a hyper-scene level rather than buried in scene nodes.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Doug Sanden, FreeWRL<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:06 AM Michalis Kamburelis <<a href="mailto:michalis.kambi@gmail.com">michalis.kambi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>From the point of view of Castle Game Engine / view3dscene, I can<br>support both Holger's suggestions :)<br><br>1. While we don't implement Layout component *yet* in CGE, it does<br>seem useful and users are actually asking me to implement it. So<br>(speaking for users) deprecating Layout does not seem desired.<br><br> (The reason why it's not implemented *yet* in CGE is that it<br>wasn't desperately needed, because in CGE we have a similar feature<br>covering similar use-case. CGE developer can use several<br>TCastleSceneManager or TCastleUserInterface Pascal components rendered<br>on top of each other. This covers similar use-cases as the X3D Layout<br>component. Although it is not available to X3D author (using only<br>view3dscene), it's only available to CGE developer designing the UI<br>using CGE components in Pascal.)<br><br>2. I don't think we will ever implement, or need, DIS in<br>CGE/view3dscene. DIS seems tailored to a specific use-case/application<br>of a military simulation.<br><br> While some terms of DIS (like "ammunition" or "detonations")<br>occur also in computer games, they would definitely not be expressed<br>by DIS nodes (because each game has very different needs here) by CGE<br>users. Thus, we have no chance of ever achieving "Full" profile<br>compatibility for X3D within CGE -- as "Full" includes DIS.<br><br> If DIS is indeed useful to particular military organizations,<br>perhaps the DIS component could be moved to a separate specification,<br>and not be part of the "Full" profile? And if it's not used, the<br>simply deprecating it seems like a reasonable choice. I'm not aware of<br>any other 3D model format that contains this feature, at least in<br>"core".<br><br>Best regards,<br>Michalis<br><br>wt., 8 paź 2019 o 09:46 Holger Seelig <<a href="mailto:holger.seelig@googlemail.com" target="_blank">holger.seelig@googlemail.com</a>> napisał(a):<br>><br>> I don't see why the Layout component should be removed in the new X3D v4<br>> standard. It is fully implemented in X_ITE and Titania, and Titania has<br>> a nice Layout Editor, which makes the use of this component very easy.<br>> With the Layout component it is possible to place something in a corner<br>> or edge of the screen, or make something as large as the screen.<br>> Removing this component will removing these possibilities.<br>><br>> I think a better candidate of removing a component is the DIS component.<br>> It is a component for purely military use, which I think has nothing to<br>> do with X3D standard. The only purpose of this component is to play war<br>> like in Counter-Strike, and to model war simulations for the army, which<br>> is not my intention.<br>><br>> Best regards,<br>> Holger<br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Holger Seelig<br>> Digital Media Designer<br>><br>> Scheffelstraße 31a<br>> 04277 Leipzig<br>> Germany<br>><br>> Cellular: +49 176 420 479 37<br>> E-Mail: holger.seelig at <a href="http://create3000.de" target="_blank">create3000.de</a><br>> Web: <a href="http://create3000.de" target="_blank">http://create3000.de</a><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> x3d-public mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>> <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>