<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:1545214801;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:1304356524 -1 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-start-at:0;
mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0D8;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;
mso-bidi-font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;
mso-bidi-font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;
mso-bidi-font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;
mso-bidi-font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;
mso-bidi-font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Also should browsers have a default internal human, like we have teapot?<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Not in the browse. Well, maybe a very simple avatar often proposed but not so far.</p><p class=MsoNormal>Actually, look at the hanim spec at web3d.org and a great link in another message, and see that what we have done is to present a ‘standard’ humanoid with ‘standard’ measurements. Together with joint centers and site locations you can build an animatable humanoid for yourself using the example in Annex A, substituting yours or any others measurements. If you were doing an authoring tool, you might use this or more evolved version for your basic skeleton. Tools like maya and 3dmax have had an example primate model (very close to x3d hanim loa2) for 25 years. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So, to see this standard model just copy paste the loa4 with markers at joint centers and see what you get. </p><p class=MsoNormal>I’m looking again and makehuman soon and I’m not sure why there is no animation, Maybe they are just doing the skin and some sort of scaling /deformation to make the model change. Whatever, it is great work. As for x3d hanim, (and I will report back) but there is nothing they are doing that can’t be done with x3d hanim. Look in medical examples for an example skin. Chisel that skin down to usable animatable density … </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Moreover, without much study you will see that the one thing that makehuman has that x3d does not have built in or official examples of is great example skins and accessories. Next, we need to integrate the realistic skeleton with a reasonable skin. We need an example skin with about 500 to 750 vertices, and one with about 1500 to 2000. There are two examples of animated hanim in examples, the boxman and the kicker. Most available I think that would be enough for some fine work, For internals, using medical wg nodes anywhere great detail is needed. It all fits together. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks, </p><p class=MsoNormal>Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com">GPU Group</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, March 25, 2020 7:31 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John Carlson</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Finding more than one use of a DEF in VRML</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>If the generators are good that will help.</p><div><p class=MsoNormal>There was a tool MakeHumanoid2 that's fun to use for static figures - you adjust with slidebars gender, age, muscle, weight, ... to get your skin.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But I didn't see an x3d exporter for it, or an HAnim2 skelitzer to go with it. </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I hereby assign to you John.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also should browsers have a default internal human, like we have teapot?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-Doug</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 8:23 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>What if I want to convert VRML to XML for the Annex A HAnim 2.0 standard, using a community tool, and the number of DEFs goes up by 1-2 orders of magnitude? Shouldn't there be a validator for the converter? (not just me putzing around with files).</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 9:19 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>We also want to present good scenegraphs in our standards.</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 9:17 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yeah, but 80 DEF's with same value (see other thread). Please!</p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That's why I'm looking for a validator or something that can throw a warning.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I believe double DEFs are not allowed within the same namespace.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>John</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 9:12 PM GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chisel? "<span style='color:#201F1E'>it was simply put in the public domain by Trapezium when they folded many years ago. They didn¹t specify any license" - Louka</span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/temp/chisel-src.zip" target="_blank">http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/temp/chisel-src.zip</a></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But I suspect double-deffing isn't illegal. I think I've been through it, and different browsers honored the first or last definition.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-Doug</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 7:43 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That is, more than one DEF with the same value.</p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I realize that separate PROTOs may have the same DEF due to namespaces. Unfortunately writing a Unix script to find this takes massive brain power.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>John</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 8:37 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I’m not particular looking for a vrml parser unless it catches double use of a DEF.</p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>John</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I’m thinking my next project might be a VRML validator if there isn’t one handy? Anyone?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I know I can translate VRML to XML.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>John</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 3:38 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Say, where is a VRML Validator? !!!!</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 3:33 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>I will download X3D-Edit and do some validation on the files, or go to the validation site @ savage</p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:19.2pt'>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>