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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>John, Joe, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>This is a new add for the PS5, but what you were talking about
strangely sounds like it:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkC0l4iekYo">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkC0l4iekYo</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>BTW, I enjoyed your conversation, as it is very relevant to
something I am looking into. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Cheerz, GL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> x3d-public
[mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joseph D Williams<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Carlson<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Humanoid Animation (H-Anim) Working Group; X3D Graphics public
mailing list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi John.,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>At this point the geometry would probably need to be
embedded in a Humanoid object and you have to know the order of appearance of
points as appears I the user code. Since elevation grid is sort of a
convenience item, they may be like a primitive in that you do not have access
to sufficient info to make a Displacer work. The geo grid does a lot and you
may not need to build the thing yourself to get what you want. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Put the geometry for the graphic and the Displacer as
children of a Site, part of a Segment, from an appropriate Joint. Maybe the
wrist, and then you can see the diagram when your character poses to look at a
location like a watch? Then you can see where your character is by reading the
map. The geo group may have something interesting for you. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks and Best, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Joe<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John
Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, June 9, 2020 11:05 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net">Joseph D Williams</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:h-anim@web3d.org">Humanoid Animation (H-Anim)
Working Group</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public
mailing list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>So can I use an HAnimDisplacer to animate displacements in r
on a GeoElevationGrid on each lat,lon point?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I’ll probably look into it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 1:01 PM John Carlson <<a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Yeah, painful.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 12:56 PM John Carlson <<a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Yes, something with GeoElevationGrid might solve my puzzle.
I am not sure I want to see Earth transformed in that way, but
perhaps I could do molten silicon (glass) cooling.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for the tip! I do not currently know the
multiplier on my equation to get something visible.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 10:13 AM Joseph D Williams <<a
href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So,
mainly, for vizualization and interaction geometry you are going to finally use
xyz coordinates in a 3D linear coordinate system to make a triangle that you
can see and interact with. Unless there is a new magic then it boils down to
that. It glows or reflects or refracts depending upon what you tell it to do
with the light you shine on it. It can respond to external or internal events
as you choose. So far, you can compute however you can but to viz you seem to
need at least one and typically in groups of 3 ccw to make a viz. So that is a
pattern, compute bunches of stuff and produce interactive xyz viz for the
feelings and wisdom then update the compute stuff, and so on. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Use
the idea of a animating one of more xyz of a mesh independently of other xyz in
the mesh. The mesh needs to be able to hang together given what you wish
to do. If each displacement is fairly predicable and linear weighting then you
can use the idea of a 3D weighted displacement vector applied independently to
each of your points of interest. Each vector can be pointed where you wish and
scaled 0 to full effect (all changeable at your will) to act upon the chosen
points of your chosen mesh in the coordinate system of the mesh. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>spherical coordinates<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
remember info about that in GeoSpatial<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>This
sort of specialized Displacer is included in hanim browsers mainly to simplify
and augment subtle mesh animation along with others styles, like using weighted
joint rotations and coordinate interpolators. Basically if you know or have access
to the current coordinates of a point and you want to move it in a controlled
way according to the 3D displacement vector produced by the node, while
maintaining the mesh, then I think we can figure out how use this clever
device. to fabricate a controllable 3D displacement vector to do the job. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As
an Enthusiast, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">John Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, June 8, 2020 8:38 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">Joseph D Williams</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:h-anim@web3d.org" target="_blank">Humanoid Animation
(H-Anim) Working Group</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
target="_blank">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
appreciate your enthusiasm for displaced. How do I displace r in
spherical coordinates?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:52 PM Joseph D Williams <<a
href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>See,
you give it a displacement vector from initial or, if other point animations in
the same frame then the location set by prior animation process such as other
Displacers or joint rotation driven mesh deformation, according to the weight
input. At least that’s the way I heard it. More in the standard. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>You
might think this might be a simple tool like first you get a shape as reference
then another shape as target, then just give those start and stop frames to the
interpolator and let it sort out the points between as you command it. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Just
like that name says, you name some vertices in the target geometery and give it
a final displacement from wherever it was to how far you tell it to be from
where it got started. The only problem is, the node is simple and so it is only
linear overall, but you can drive 0 to 1 however you wish.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Also,
you can chain a few to get some special more delicate displacements. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Example:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Your
point 527 of the target geometry (in the order of appearance in the user code)
starts at 0 1.77 0 and over some cycle you want to move it to 0 1.92 0 then the
displacer value for max movement is 0 0.15 0. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>initial
0 1.77 0 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>displacer
0 0.15 0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>result
0 1.92 0<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Simple
but very effective if you have a plan for what you wish to do given some input.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><Displacer
DEF='tipTest' <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>coordIndex='527'
displacements='0 0.15 0' weight='0'/><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>weight
driven by<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><ScalarInterpolator
DEF='tipTest' <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>key='0
0.5 1' keyValue='0 0.3 1'/><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If
you have a deformable mesh, then all is good. But wait, you only get that by
name in x3d hanim. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Shouldn’t
there be some in basic x3d so you don’t have to put your code n the Humanoid?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So,
maybe that is why our x3d hanim Displacer is so special and not called a
‘morpher’ doing one set of coordinates to another, but instead, where, relative
to what it got, what do at you want to happen to that vertex when this
Displacer gives it the drive. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Isn’t
that also why all the ‘simple’ morphers like between frames and others
are hidden in plain sight in the different styles of x3d interpolators? Each of
their stories should be told, also. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">Joseph D Williams</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, June 8, 2020 1:50 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">John Carlson</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">X3D Graphics
public mailing list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l2 level1 lfo6'>Limited to [0,1]? I’ll check the docs.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Yes,
that is the scale input. From the initial position, theDisplacer moves the
specified vertex according to the 100 percent displacement set in the values.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Sent
from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank">Mail</a>
for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">John Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Sunday, June 7, 2020 1:14 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">Joseph D
Williams</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">X3D Graphics
public mailing list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Limited
to [0,1]? I’ll check the docs.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 3:10 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:9.6pt'>Not trying to change the number of points yet. Thanks for
the info.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:9.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:9.6pt'>On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 7:56 AM Joseph D Williams <<a
href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:55.2pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>
</span>What people don’t understand is I’m moving every vertex in the mesh<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>Hey John, vrml and x3d hid that one in the hanim Displacer
node. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>If you can’t do a morph you need with that, please tell.
Just don’t try to change the number of points. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>Joe<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank">John Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Sunday, June 7, 2020 12:55 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">X3D Graphics
public mailing list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>Don, I am just trying to make the standard better for
visualizing mathematical stuff, I pretty much majored in mathematical
visualization in college. There’s a lot of stuff in the standard for
visualizing physics, both rigid body and particle systems. Instead of
applying math to physics, I am trying to apply physics to math.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>I realize that visualizing math does not really have a
vocal champion in the X3D community, perhaps Andy Yeh is still around.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>I imagine because Mathematica made great strides in the
math community.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>Mathematica still requires a Pro edition running on the
cloud to even attempt my surfaces. In X3D, they pop right up, even
multiple “transparent” animated objects. Yay X3D!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>PlayCanvas has a *very* slow start up compared to X3D.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>I would like to continue using X3D over PlayCanvas and
others. The key remains don’t use the network for mesh, positions, or
normals, generate them on the web client. My knowledge of geometry
shaders indicates I still need to compute a grid on a sphere, and the geometry
shader can enhance that.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>That is why I am seeking to have the browser generate the
mesh for at least one topology, let’s call it a sphere, but it’s the topology
of the equation that matters. I can already position and compute normals
of the surfaces. I could probably compute a mesh as sphere topology in an
initialize method if that’s still allowed. I am not sure about X_ITE.
I do not want to generate coordinates in X3D nodes. Shaders are
fine for that. I am not sure I can confidently generate a mesh without
defects.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>Low bandwidth (think 4G LTE) is preferred.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>But you can see my Frustration compared to Mathematica
users who just type in a small set of equations. Not my lucky day.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>I do not want geometry or perfect math in X3D. I
want a topological 0-hole enclosed surface, subdivided to adequate resolution.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>I will look further into primitive quality.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>I will see if my graphics card supports raytracing.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:19.2pt'>On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:37 AM John Carlson <<a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.4in'>Here’s the best looking version of what I like to do:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.4in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.4in'><a href="https://playcanv.as/p/wQgQBgkE/" target="_blank">https://playcanv.as/p/wQgQBgkE/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.4in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.4in'>Ideally, I could send a math equation in MathML by putting
MathML into the geometry node, and PBR or material like glass or diamond<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.4in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.4in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.4in'>On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:22 AM John Carlson <<a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'>Previous subject: morphing comparison in X3D and
glTF:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'><a
href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-December/008037.html"
target="_blank">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-December/008037.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'>I would say morphing is doable in X3DOM, but perhaps not
other browsers. The most conformant approach would probably be an IFS
where the position and normal are computed in a shader and the mesh is computed
in user code, or provided statically.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'>My question becomes, Why can’t we provide at least
provide for common topologies? 1 surface and 0 edges (sphere), 2 surface
(cone), 3 surface (cylinder), 1 surface and one hole(torus), and consider a
higher number of holes and surfaces. I think we have a isocahedron at
least...but very slow to open.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'>It seems like I should be using blender to create X3D.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'>John<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'>On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:33 AM John Carlson <<a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:48.0pt'>What people don’t understand is I’m moving every vertex in
the mesh with respect to the mesh. Kind of like particle physics or
morphing would be a better description. I have example videos.<o:p></o:p></p>
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margin-left:48.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:48.0pt'>John<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:48.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:48.0pt'>On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:01 PM J. Scheurich <<a
href="mailto:mufti11@web.de" target="_blank">mufti11@web.de</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:38.4pt'><br>
> 1. User provides a mesh. I have done this before. It is too
slow for<br>
> a 100x100 IFS (20000 polygons I think).<br>
It depend on your graphics card and driver.<br>
For the rasberry PI and some other systems i meshured the performace in<br>
3000 Polygon-Steps<br>
(1 NURBS-Object with uv/Tessellation 0)<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://wdune.ourproject.org/docs/usage_docs/white_dune_rasberry_pi.odp"
target="_blank">https://wdune.ourproject.org/docs/usage_docs/white_dune_rasberry_pi.odp</a><br>
<br>
(in german but page 5 is a readable table).<br>
A raspberry PI (shared Memory graphics card) can do 30000 polygons, a<br>
Intel HD 3000 shared<br>
memory graphics card (this is a common card on older
"office"-laptops)<br>
can do 33000 polygons.<br>
There are very much faster graphic cards on "game laptops"....<br>
The fastest graphics card on this list is a very slow (processor)<br>
Mac-book....<br>
<br>
The only systems that are not able to do 20000 polygons are a 8 year old<br>
netbook and a<br>
ARM chromebook without a 3D driver.<br>
<br>
so long<br>
MUFTI<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
x3d-public mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
<a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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