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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'>In freewrl, the Motion nodes -including HAnimMotion and (MotionPlay + MotionClip) don't need the DEF names Just the joint name="l_shoulder" names.</li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>OK, so for timer/interpolator/route animations, the author needs to know the DEF names but in your under the covers Motion node implementation, you don’t care. So you use the Joint name field to make a connection?</p><p class=MsoNormal>Then the names in the Humanoid joints field is really of no value to the Motion node?</p><p class=MsoNormal>Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com">GPU Group</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, June 24, 2020 3:19 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net">Joseph D Williams</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John Carlson</a>; <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">Don Brutzman</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] What is "loa" ?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In freewrl DEF/USE is just for the parser, for when you want to ROUTE or re-USE a node. Once its parsed we don't refer to those DEF names in HAnim. </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In freewrl, the Motion nodes -including HAnimMotion and (MotionPlay + MotionClip) don't need the DEF names Just the joint name="l_shoulder" names.</p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-Doug</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 4:03 PM Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><ul type=disc><li class=gmail-m-5601582124530706829msolistparagraph style='mso-list:l3 level1 lfo1'>Can we change the USE reference node to SFString instead of SFNode?</li></ul><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>That does nothing but mess up USE even more. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The main idea is that the USE statements refer to the DEF name which does not match the joint names in the Motion node. Am I wrong about this? The DEF names are different from the name field in the Joint. Sooner or later the Motion animation stuff has to know both. So what to do? </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It is obvious that the Motion node needs to know the Joint name first, to see if there are matches, then needs to find the DEF names to run the animation. What to do? I didn’t like or see the need for the Humanoid joints, segments, and sites fields because if xml, then it is easy to use DOM interfaces to find out the list of Joint nodes and give both the DEF name and the name name.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">John Carlson</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, June 24, 2020 1:23 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">Joseph D Williams</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">Don Brutzman</a>; <a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">GPU Group</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] What is "loa" ?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Can we change the USE reference node to SFString instead of SFNode?</p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 3:15 PM Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Also if not too late, which it definitely should not be, Please change the Humanoid joints, segments, and sites fields to hold an MFString “string’ ‘string’…” style that includes all Joint names, Segment names, and Site names. This aligns with the needs of the Humanoid Motion node that needs the actual names, not the DEFs. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Including these in a USE instance is confusing because the DEF actually needs to be ignored by the hanim browser as far as rendering in concerned, and does not align with the needs of the Humanoid Motion node because that node needs the actual Joint names, not the actual Joint animation interface DEF names. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As I said, I think I finally can agree with including those Humanoid fields if they actually serve a purpose. That purpose is to deliver sets of actual names that can be used by the Humanoid Motion node. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Or, not a favorite of mine, the Humanoid Motion node should be changed to specify the Joint DEF names, which whatever is under the covers would have to discover anyway. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks and Best, </p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">GPU Group</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, June 24, 2020 8:57 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">Don Brutzman</a>; <a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">Joseph D Williams</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] What is "loa" ?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Don - if not too late for v4, facilitation and.or next steps requested for following topic:</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>v4 HAnimMotion > MF field types in (web3d supplemental) MotionClip node </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks,</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-Doug Sanden</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>more..</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>There may be a consensus forming around the idea of the extra nodes - MotionPlay and MotionClip - having MF fields for channels, joints (and values).. The 2 extra nodes aren't needed for full compliance to HAnim2 - they are supplemental - and so don't need to strictly comply. with field syntax.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>1) HAnimMotion as specified in HANim2 with SF fields for channels, joints and values</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- complies with HAnim2 specs fully</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>2) HAnimMotionPlay + HAnimMotionClip extra / supplemental nodes</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- MotionClip could have MF fields for channels, joints and values to assist authoring tool support</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- (in theory could have both SF and MF under different names if needed for abstract node inheritance ie parsedChannels MFString?)</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- and url field for loading .bvh files</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- an SFNode nameMap field will help with some bvh use cases</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Related to</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/tests/hanim/web3d/HAnim_Motion.pdf" target="_blank">http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/tests/hanim/web3d/HAnim_Motion.pdf</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black;background:#F3F3F3'>Mantis (resolved): 0001312: Mismatched type defaults defined for HAnimMotion channels field in X3D4 </span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 9:36 PM Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Basically, me like very much</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">GPU Group</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, June 22, 2020 5:07 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">Joseph D Williams</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] What is "loa" ?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>But I think there's room for both methods. </p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- the Motion node probably needs to conform to HAnim 2.0 specifications already registered with (whatever body - is it ISO?).</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- a few more non-hanim-standard nodes could be considered </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- I proposed a few - HAnimMotionPaly + HAnimMotionData/HAnimMotionDataFile </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- Don suggested merging HAnimMotionData and DataFile. I suggested HAnimMotionClip for the name</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- HAnimMotionClip has the 3 data fields from Motion. But when loading from url/,.bvh file, it doesn't populate those fields. Just uses them like HAnimMotion when no url given.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So one way to make more of us happy:</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- keep the HAnimMotion node as defined for HAnim 2,0 specs</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- Do the MotionPlay + MotionClip additional nodes</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- put a url field tor Doug (and the freewrlians who like the option to play with freely downloaded .bvh mocap files)</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- put MF fields for Joe who likes style sheet conversions and authoring tool workflows</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>How does that sound?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-Doug</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 5:40 PM GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I can type in an image pixel by pixel into an MF field. Its more convenient to give a url to an image file.</p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Same with .bvh.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-Doug </p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 5:34 PM Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'>Or - have web3d browsers load .bvh directly, via a mapping / lookup node / field./ table which you would likely also need for import tools.</li></ul><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As discussed in another thread mainly about actually importing a complete bvh file, that is a legacy style that has the ‘official’ playback skeleton is hidden (hanim V1 and x3d exposed it using the Humanoid skeleton field) and the ‘user’ just imports his custom bvh file that is already matched to the internal hidden playback skeleton and then it gets executed and user gets some results. Maybe a video, even. Definitely not designed for realtime interactions. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As is seen using Motion node, this style looks easy at first, then gets hard when you actually want to take control by editing the motion data, or to load another data set, or to update the ‘standard’ playback skeleton or imported capture skeleton. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>x3d hanim gets away from this legacy owner/user model by exposing the playback skeleton and the animation structures directly to the author. And, by using a coding scheme where animations do not need to be a part of the Humanoid user code we are more happy. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks, </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">Joseph D Williams</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, June 22, 2020 3:49 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">GPU Group</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] What is "loa" ?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>If so, then -as we get further from copy and pasta-ability- there may be some demand for tools to import .bvh and convert to these x3d MF fields.</li></ul><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Right, I think the best idea would be to have a simple tool take the bvh file and turn it into xml of gltf style that can be validated and reformatted for editing. And, unless we want to treat strings like mf numbers, strings need delimiting quotes. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks for the hanim thoughts.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">GPU Group</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, June 20, 2020 1:23 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] What is "loa" ?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hypothesis: the hanim motion fields were originally designed to make it easy to copy and paste from freely available motion capture .bvh files.</p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If so, then -as we get further from copy and pasta-ability- there may be some demand for tools to import .bvh and convert to these x3d MF fields.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Or - have web3d browsers load .bvh directly, via a mapping / lookup node / field./ table which you would likely also need for import tools.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-Doug</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:38 PM GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/MotionDataAnimation/ExampleMocapAnimationMotionObject.html" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/MotionDataAnimation/ExampleMocapAnimationMotionObject.html</a> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'>This version of AnnexD is what I used - and it looks like an SFString 0 as does values and jpints</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'>WARNING - any examples from this AnnexD may need rework for web3d </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'>-Doug</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'> </p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'>On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:21 PM Don Brutzman <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:</p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:9.6pt'>MUFTI you definitely want to be looking at the HAnim2 specifications.<br><br>Web3D Consortium members are the controlling authority for X3D and HAnim specifications, International Standards Organization (ISO) certifies.<br><br>X3D3 is simply implementing HAnim2, typically as tersely as possible so that there is no confusion in prose that HAnim2 is the controlling specification. Please see<br><br>* ISO/IEC 19774-1, HAnim2 Specifications parts 1 and 2<br> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/</a><br><br>===============================================<br>* ISO/IEC 19774-1, HAnim2 Specifications part 1<br> clause 3 Terms and definitions<br> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/glossary.html" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/glossary.html</a><br><br>3.11<br> level of articulation<br> LOA<br> degree of fidelity based on number of joints in an HAnim figure<br>===============================================<br><br>also<br><br>* 4.8.5 Levels of articulation<br> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#LevelsOfArticulation" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#LevelsOfArticulation</a><br><br>"Level of articulation (LOA) represents the complexity and detail of joints for a humanoid skeletal hierarchy, and can be used for generating various motions based on the joints. There are five levels of articulation:<br><br> LOA‑0 represents only the humanoid_root Joint object without an accompanying hierarchy, as shown in (Figure 4.3).<br> LOA‑1 represents the simplest organization and hierarchy of joints for a humanoid. There are 18 joints and 18 segments. Each segment has a joint in the hierarchy. Figure 4.4 represents LOA‑1 joints.<br> LOA‑2 consists of 71 joints and 71 segments (Figure 4.5).<br> LOA‑3 consists of 94 joints and 94 segments (Figure 4.6).<br> LOA‑4 builds on LOA‑3 by adding anatomical details of hands and feet (Figure 4.7). LOA‑4 consists of 148 joints and 148 segments. Hands and feet joints for LOA‑4 are illustrated in 4.9.3 and 4.9.4 respectively."<br><br><br>* 4.9 Structure of a humanoid, 4.9.6 Hierarchy<br> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#Hierarchy" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#Hierarchy</a><br><br>* 4.9 Structure of a humanoid<br> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html</a><br><br>* Annex A (informative) Nominal human body dimensions and levels of articulation (LOAs)<br> Nominal human body dimensions and levels of articulation (LOAs)<br><br>* A.2 Levels of articulation (LOAs)<br> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LevelsOfArticulation" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LevelsOfArticulation</a><br><br>There is a lot of information in there that deserves careful reading. You will find tables and diagrams that illustrate every joint and (bone) segment in the human body, along with a number of useful feature-point sites. This took years of effort by many members of HAnim working group.<br><br>Current work by Joe Williams, John Carlson and myself is improving past-legacy examples to match HAnim2 capabilities with X3D4. We hope that testing and verification will help.<br><br>* HumanoidAnimation X3D Examples Archive<br> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation</a><br><br>* X3D Tooltips, HAnimHumanoid loa<br> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#HAnimHumanoid.loa" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#HAnimHumanoid.loa</a><br><br>HAnim designers hope that by identifying both HAnimHumanoid models and HAnimMotion animations with the LOA supported, it will be easier to mix/match models and animations. Since each LOA is a strict subset of the next LOA, some compatibility is possible across human LOA levels.<br><br>* 4.9.7 Site and Segment relationships<br> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#SiteSegmentRelationships" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#SiteSegmentRelationships</a><br><br>It is not impossible to think that someday this work might even rise to the level of rigor needed for 3D HAnim models becoming part of medical records. HAnim and X3D4 have the potential to help... everyone.<br><br>Thanks for your scrutiny and helpful questions.<br><br><br>On 6/18/2020 11:02 PM, John Carlson wrote:<br>> <br>> To answer your question, many parts of the government like to create acronyms.<br>> <br>> John<br><br>Sorry John, can't blame government for this one. (Wondering, are parts of the government controlling your keyboard?!)<br><br>> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 12:38 AM J. Scheurich <<a href="mailto:mufti11@web.de" target="_blank">mufti11@web.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mufti11@web.de" target="_blank">mufti11@web.de</a>>> wrote:<br>> <br>> hI,<br>> <br>> From<br>> <br>> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimMotion" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimMotion</a><br>> <br>> SFInt32 [in,out] loa -1 [-1,4]<br>> <br>> What does "loa" mean ? Fieldnames in X3D are often english words,<br>> but the dictionary <a href="http://leo.org" target="_blank">leo.org</a> <<a href="http://leo.org" target="_blank">http://leo.org</a>> has no results for "loa" 8-(<br>> <br>> so long<br>> MUFTI<br>all the best, Don<br>-- <br>Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a><br>Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<br>X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics <a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank">http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:9.6pt'> </p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt'> </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>