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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>Regards to everyone, this is a fruitful discussion, thank you,</li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>My comments may be a bit dated, but … </p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'>HAnim I think could also be done on the GPU, after some processing.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal>That is so true, what did they do before gpu? GPU data, I think could also be done in x3d, after some unprocessing. After all, don’t forget that x3d hanim is derived from best graphics practices for specifying skeleton-driven deformable skin animations beween people and machines. Collada and gltf mainly worried about transfer between machines.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Information about how the inverseBindMatrices could be translated to X3D </li></ul><p class=MsoNormal>(such that the resulting X3D node graph still has all the information how to </p><p class=MsoNormal>perform this animation efficiently) would be appreciated.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>All I know is that the information to construct and update scene at exact keyframe times and all initial matrix items are present in the x3d user code. Does the gltf files you are importing include all the initial matrix data? Data needed to initialize the inverseBindMatrices is directly from the x3d user code and maybe the best question is whether we can construct some x3d user code from given inverseBindMatrices, also given that all world-class browsers may not use that style to animate transform hierarchies powering deformable mesh. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>What a nice quick reference for gltf 2.0 and thanks for the duck’s lessons, but efficiency is not the total goal of x3d hanim when it interferes with being readable by a human and easily transportable in text form. Efficiency and transportability are also the goals of gltf. And, they print the stuff in such neat form. I was always worried that the json names of things might become unfigurable quacks but the vocabulary is a great mix of legacy and modern names and data structures and operations to be performed on the data. </p><p class=MsoNormal> </p><p class=MsoNormal>So, as long as we can figure out how to generate some desired gltf files from x3d hanim user code, then, in my mind, we ought to be ok. If we can derive x3d hanim user code from whatever gltf is presented then that would be wonderful. </p><p class=MsoNormal>I expect the wonderful outcome because I am sure that the .json intended for glsl skin is certainly highly organized and optimized for a modern 'standard' gpu style platform, and names may be closer to the metal, or, I believe, mainly just named differently, or maybe computed from some known operations, so then we really ought to be able to transcode both ways. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>From the json version, we may have to do some analyzing, computing, and reorganizing, but I am sure all that is needed is there. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>First, I must assume that any x3d browser that intends WebGL GLSL tools may derive the gltf example vertex shader to displace hanim skin mesh. Both for the joint-driven animations and for displacer-driven animations. </p><p class=MsoNormal>Historically, a basic goal for x3d user code is that x3d hanim must provide all inputs to whatever moves the skeleton and deforms the skin. Of course there may also be new ways to do this stuff that nobody has exposed to the standards process. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>From page 5, skins, we need to define the skeleton, skin, and the mesh used for the skin and that is in "nodes". For "Skinned mesh node", I'm going to take the easy one first and find the "mesh" field. Do I interpret this to mean there is a set of joint and weight attributes for each vertex? I think the x3D Joint nodes contain all this basic data. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We just need to find all the joints that produce an effect on each vertex. First look at the order in which each vertex appears in the x3d user code, give it a number starting with zero, and find each Joint associated with that vertex. This is found in the skinCoordIndex and skinCoordWeight fields of each Joint node </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So all we need for "meshes" are the basic "attributes" which ends up being a complete list of skin vertices, each with the list of joints and weights that affect that vertex. </p><p class=MsoNormal>I guess prior to animation the "POSITION" value is held by an accessor somewhere that has been set up and is as set by initial vertex coordinates of the hanim skin field. The "meshes" seem simple and fairly easy to derive from typical x3d user code for skeleton and skin and do not change after initialization. The example makes it look easy for a few points, but this part of the code gets massive with complex skins, like maybe hundreds or thousands of points along with a complex skeleton. In the x3d hanim you will see that the Joint node only lists the specific vertex index and weight that the author intends to animate using that joint. For a realistic deformable mesh animation, it will be rare to need more than eight joints used in some combinations to control a vertex especially when the hanim Displacer is available. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The json seems to define the nodes in terms of a vertex and a group of 16 (or some fixed process-specific number) joints, </p><p class=MsoNormal>most with 0 weight. This might seem to be wasteful in the json, but hey, suppose you were working with a device having 16 joints, then the json code represents the complete skeleton and this data truly is a complete listing of the joint-rotation driven effect of every joint on every vertex for every keyframe. Most importantly, this json information is provides a way to produce x3d user code for important fields of hanim skeleton Joint nodes. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>It comes to mind that prior, this data structure was at least part of what I was calling the inverse binding matrix. Sorry, about that but we have to get to that one because it has such an awesome name may be even more important than I thought I remembered. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>More later … surely there is no concern that joint hierarchies and other needed initial matrices needed for the json form are directly in the x3d user code, including all animation timing and event routing data?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regarding compression, that will also be a good excercize, to compare comprezzed tranzport of the same model in both formz. I would suggest using the joekick example, but boxman would also work. The joe kick at least has enough joints and hierarchies and skin verts, and texture transform and displacer animation, and cycle time to show some interesting stuff. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for all, </p><p class=MsoNormal>Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:michalis.kambi@gmail.com">Michalis Kamburelis</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:32 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com">GPU Group</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com">Andreas Plesch</a>; <a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net">Joseph D Williams</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] FW: [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19774-2:HAnimMotionCapture -V1.0 (Michalis Kamburelis)</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>@Andreas Thank you for an excellent analysis and docs. I will study them :) If we can figure out a common "base" approach for making skinned animation on GPU, that includes doing both X3D / H-Anim and glTF efficiently, it would be magnificent.</p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>As for the number of joints per vertex, later in this thread:</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Just to clarify, glTF doesn’t specify values for all joints for all vertices.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>For each vertex, skinned mesh in glTF -> means that you specify weights and indexes for 4 joints (as 4D vectors, see JOINTS_0 and WEIGHTS_0 in glTF spec description). glTF requires that browsers support at least 4 joints per vertex.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Browsers may also choose to support more, which means you have additional arrays for 4 additional joints+weights. And so on (provided as arrays JOINTS/WEIGHTS_1, JOINTS/WEIGHTS_2 etc.). In theory you can support as many joints as you like. Although I doubt that many (glTF) viewers support more than 8 joints, in practice.To be honest I have not seen practical examples of 3D models (in any format, glTF X3D Collada or any other) when more than 8 joints per vertex are really necessary. So indeed 16 should be more than enough in practice :)</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>So there is indeed some "waste" in how glTF animation data is encoded, although it's not like "all joints for all vertices". You need to use multiple-of-4 joints, and all vertices need to use the same number of joints, because of how you need to deliver this data to GPU shaders. So e.g. if you have a few vertices influenced by 5 joints, and most vertices are influenced by 1 joint -- tough luck, you will need to specify 8 joints per vertex to express this (if you cannot lose any information).</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This waste is probably mitigated, since all these zeros will be nicely compressed if you transfer the files using any compression. And to perform skinned mesh animation on GPU (regardless of X3D / H-Anim or glTF) you need such wasteful data structure anyway, so at some point it has to be constructed in memory by the browser.</p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards to everyone, this is a fruitful discussion, thank you,</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Michalis</p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>W dniu niedz., 28.06.2020 o 18:57 GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>> napisał(a):</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>The history of technology disruptions is full of example technologies with fewer features, but that meet the needs of 50% of the market in a simpler ./cheaper /more convenient way.</p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Web3d itself is under threat, and several of its components -fully featured and with more features planned- are looking complex and tedious to a market where 80% of use cases can be filled by something simpler. </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I've been caught before perfecting a technology with more complete and industrial strength features as something simpler disrupts the market.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think freeWRLians will be very satisfied with 16 weights per vertex - plenty for the majority of use cases.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I take little comfort that HAnim can do more than 16.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-Doug</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 9:46 AM Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>> Information about how the inverseBindMatrices could be translated to X3D (such that the resulting X3D node graph still has all the information how to perform this animation efficiently) would be appreciate</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The only reason ‘all’ joints are included is to fill the joint and weight array with 16 data pairs due to the way the hardware math gets done. Note that hanim usually says up to eight joints per vertex, but modern structures just want 16 mostly weight of zero even if fewer joints affect the vertex. This is a hardware feature, not a mandatory feature. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>More on the gltf is better idea later, but for now, please look at all the files you need for gltf and see the bulk. For example, look at the mesh attributes and tell me how this works for a complex skeleton and skin with even as few as 500 vertices, not to mention all the other files you need. Most of those, like the joint matrices need to be generated from something and in x3d hanim browser, that gets done without you needing to know about it using data in the x3d user code. Likewise with the animation data. Surely you can see how to generate the animation data files from x3d timer/interpolator/route structures, and surely you can see how to generate the “nodes” data from x3d hanim. Now, where do the </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Later we can walk through the gltf 2.0 quick ref skinning and take a look at all the various files and matrices you need to make it work, and how, if you choose to use that animation and rendering style, you can get the data from x3d hanim user code. One thing you will see is that the described process has evolved through Segment geometry to skin, so it is organized that way. Again, lets show a side-by-side with something realistic like at least 20 joints and skin of around 200 verts and at least 20 or so keytimes. It all looks fairly easy when somebody gives you a set of complete gltf files, but gets a lot harder if you want to change some details to adapt to your skeleton and needs more data elements in the user code to do the same thing. </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks, </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe</p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <b>From: </b><a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" target="_blank">Andreas Plesch</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, June 27, 2020 5:59 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>[x3d-public] FW: [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19774-2: HAnimMotionCapture -V1.0 (Michalis Kamburelis)</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> I took the opportunity to look up my older notes on an attempt to</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>translate gltf skins to HAnim:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <a href="https://github.com/andreasplesch/x3dom/wiki/RiggedSimple-glTF-conversion" target="_blank">https://github.com/andreasplesch/x3dom/wiki/RiggedSimple-glTF-conversion</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="https://github.com/andreasplesch/x3dom/wiki/HAnim-and-glTF-skins" target="_blank">https://github.com/andreasplesch/x3dom/wiki/HAnim-and-glTF-skins</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> There should be also a list thread with Joe discussing things.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> I do not have the stomach to dive back into this but I remember while overall the data structures are fairly similar between gltf and HAnim, the main difference is that in gltf each skin vertex is affected by all joints and therefore needs a quite a lot of data (joint indices</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>and weights - many 0) while in HAnim the mapping is the opposite: each joint is associated with only the selection of vertices which it affects. This is more efficient and author friendly but in the end the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>GPU needs a joint matrix for each vertex anyways. gltf is more GPU friendly as this is the main idea behind it.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> This is mainly the reason as far as I remember that it actually might</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>work better to use the gltf skin data structure as a base and</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>translate HAnim into gltf but I did not explore that any further.HAnim I think could also be done on the GPU, after some processing.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> In terms of the spec. and underlying principles, I remember that I struggled with gltf and that a somewhat unofficial overview was actually crucial. I think I have a long gltf github issue on skins somewhere. I did find the HAnim spec. easier and more logical to digest maybe because I read it first.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> my 2c, -Andreas</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2020 02:10:57 +0200</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> From: Michalis Kamburelis <<a href="mailto:michalis.kambi@gmail.com" target="_blank">michalis.kambi@gmail.com</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> There are some misconceptions in this thread about the glTF skinned animation.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > E.g. this statement is simply not true: """This is why some of those gltf</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> file sets are so big, right. It is because it does not represent actual</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> user code (except for maybe the person who lives in there) but precomputed</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> stuff. With a file for each vertex for each frame. From the gltf it is not</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> that easy to reconstruct the actual animation routine or even the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> bindings.""""</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> The glTF file doesn't contain the baked animation, it doesn't contain the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> vertex position at each frame or anything like that.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> glTF skinned mesh specifies, for each vertex, which bones have an effect on</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> this vertex (and with what weight). It's exactly like in all 3D</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> authoring/modeling software (and like H-Anim too). The skinned mesh is</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> affected by a hierarchy of bones (glTF nodes), much like a hierarchy of</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> Transform in X3D or Joints in H-Anim.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> glTF adds to this the "inverseBindMatrices" information, which allows to</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> quickly figure out "how do my vertexes change, when my bone transformation</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> change". It's a crucial structure to perform skinned animation easily and</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> efficiently. It also allows to perform skinned animation fast, in</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> particular you can do it completely on GPU in shaders. It's not a large</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> structure in terms of file size (1 matrix for each joint).</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> Information about how the inverseBindMatrices could be translated to X3D</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> (such that the resulting X3D node graph still has all the information how</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> to perform this animation efficiently) would be appreciated.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> The glTF skinned animation specification is very simple, it's way simpler</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> and shorter than H-Anim. It's just a section "Skins" in glTF spec:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> <a href="https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/specification/2.0#skins" target="_blank">https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/specification/2.0#skins</a> .</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> You can also take a look at</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> <a href="https://www.slideshare.net/Khronos_Group/gltf-20-reference-guide" target="_blank">https://www.slideshare.net/Khronos_Group/gltf-20-reference-guide</a> , where</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> the skinned animation in glTF explanation takes 1.5 page (pages 5-6 of that</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> PDF).</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> Regards,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> Michalis</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> niedz., 28 cze 2020 o 00:55 John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> napisa?(a):</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > Someone must check tidy output manually. Can you confirm that tidy is</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > doing the right thing? Maybe rerun tidy and see if anything changes?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> ></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > I have been pretty much zonked for a couple of weeks. I think Don did</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > create some kind of mapping table if I read my email correctly.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> ></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > John</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 10:24 AM GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> ></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >> Tidy has such a big list - overwhelming for a human. So that would be</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >> good for some of the little things at the end. Getting the list down to</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >> human size first would help.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >> Tidy has suggestions for some. Getting those nuisance / annoying /</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >> routine substitution things out of the tidy log first by automation would</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >> help get it closer to human scale.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >> On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 9:17 AM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>> Maybe we need some practice manually fixing before automating?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>> John</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>> On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 7:47 AM GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/build.X3dSchematronX3dTidy.log.txt" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/build.X3dSchematronX3dTidy.log.txt</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> If its this tidy stuff, is there a way to automate some of the fixing?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> It looks like tidy has some ;guesses' for some of the names. And for other</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> names a human could probably guess, if it was in a list / lookup table.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> I wonder if there's a way to get tidy to put out its complaints into a</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> form that could be used by a string substitution utility. Or scrape a</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> lookup table from the tidy log?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> So it could all be done in a day.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 12:33 AM Joseph D Williams <</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> <a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *From: *Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Sent: *Friday, June 26, 2020 9:53 PM</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *To: *GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Cc: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Subject: *RE: FW: [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19774-2: HAnim</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> MotionCapture -V1.0</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - Getting past blockages in the HAnim project and on to node</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> improvements might help later when harmonizing with glTF skinning.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Any hanim blockages are just getting some really rather</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> straightforward simple updates (names and hierarchies) done.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> We are already harmonized with gltf, because it is the same data in</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> json form as we author in x3d human-readable form. Nothing magic or not</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> harmonious, just the gltf data is built for hardware instead of humans. If</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> you have figured out what the gltf stuff is and how to use it, then you</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> will have learned about x3d hanim.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Likewise, the reverse is true but it is more difficult because the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> gltf data is so scattered around. For example, the skin deformation is</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> indexed by vertex usually with about 16 (for convenience) joints and</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> weights, and one of these for each vertex. If you look at hanim Joint, the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> vertices and weights associated with each joint are listed in the Joint</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> node. So, what would you do with hanim Joint data to create some gltf</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> vertex objects?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *From: *GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Sent: *Friday, June 26, 2020 3:46 PM</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Cc: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: FW: [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19774-2: HAnim</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> MotionCapture -V1.0</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Q. HAnim Examples > What does the to-do list look like?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> I ask because I got a sense that no new / modified HANim nodes would</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> be considered beyond official HAnim2 until examples cleaned up.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Is there anything blocking that? I ask in case someone has</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> something that can help.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> One thing that popped to mind: is there a problem getting authors</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> permission? If so and an example was demonstrating a particular thing,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> perhaps that scene can be dropped and a new one authored or volunteered by</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> others reading this who may be sitting on some assets or capabilities that</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> can volunteer equivalent scenery.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> -Doug</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> more..</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> On the horizon: glTF skinning which may have the effect of bypassing</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> HAnim, perhaps obsoleting HAnim in practice.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <a href="https://www.khronos.org/files/gltf20-reference-guide.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.khronos.org/files/gltf20-reference-guide.pdf</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - p.5,6,7</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Getting past blockages in the HAnim project and on to node</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> improvements might help later when harmonizing with glTF skinning.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:52 PM Joseph D Williams <</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - My conceptual model is a bit different.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> That is OK by me as long as it works. Whatever, Joint hierarchies will</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> operate just like practical hierarchies of standard x3d Transform nodes,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> using center of rotation concept.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> For the Humanoid, if there are more joints in the capture than the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> playback, then you ?ignore? some sets of values. If there are more joints</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> in the playback than the capture, then, if the hierarchy is still ok, you</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> don?t send events to the extra joints, or just send the default.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> The x3d tool should be able to help an author by first giving a list</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> of what joints, segments, sites are available in the playback skeleton</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> defined In the Humanoid skeleton. All the author needs to do to use</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> existing x3d timer/interpolator/route animations is connect up the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> animation events to the skeleton Joint DEFs. Multiple, selectable animation</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> routines can reside inside or outside the Humanoid, and prototype behaviors</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> are very usable and very sharable between similar characters. In general,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> these animations are designed for realtime rather than frametime, but of</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> course can be used to produce a frame at any time. However, these</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> animations by themselves may not directly define the skeleton they apply</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> to, or the initial pose.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> For x3d HAnim Humanoid Motion style, I think we are trying to access a</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> perhaps more public range of animations, by the easiest way possible. From</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> what I have seen these mostly use capture intervals related to video or</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> film and are typically oversampled for typical realtime needs, and also,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> since mainly using xyz data, are subject to unpredictable animations,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> particularly fast wide motions. However, we want to make it convenient for</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> an author, so we want to use the data in the bvh file to help connect the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> skeletons with the data.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Turns out this may be easy because the bvh file contains configuration</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> data for the capture skeleton as well as the animation data. Now all we</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> must do is connect the skeletons and then the data and events are all</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> handled under the covers. In this case, it is possible that a tool could</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> for example, display a model of the capture skeleton and the playback</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> skeleton to help the author decide how to proceed, or even, if the names</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> matched, do it automagically.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> A Humanoid Motion animation resides in the Humanoid object and for</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> best automation, should include enough information to reconstruct the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> capture skeleton hierarchy. In order to establish this baseline, the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> existing Motion node wants the author to transcribe important bvh data into</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> x3d data forms and place it within the Humanoid Motion node. This practice</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> also tends to help transportability between various typical capture</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> skeletons and x3d hanim ?standard? skeletons.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - Your loa4 idea makes sense if you don't want to ignore?.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> I still think the idea behind ?ignore? is that if you have more joints</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> and data in for the capture skeleton than the playback skeleton can use.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> The author has determined that some of the capture data has to be ignored</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> and not sent to playback skeleton, so those joints are labeled with</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> ?ignore? keyword in order to declare that the related data is not to be</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> used. Please tell me if this is not what is intended.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> If that is the case then the playback skeleton will never know because</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> no events are sent to joints that are not there.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> If you have more joints in the playback skeleton, then it is ok and no</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> capture data needs to be ignored and playback joints that don?t get data</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> don?t care and work as if not there.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Thanks for thinking about this,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *From: *GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, June 24, 2020 4:33 PM</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Cc: *Spec Feedback <<a href="mailto:spec-comment@web3d.org" target="_blank">spec-comment@web3d.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19774-2: HAnim</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Motion Capture -V1.0</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> My conceptual model is a bit different.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - skeletal joint asks for joint information from</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> MotionData/MotionClip, joint by joint when traversing the skeletal joint</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> hierarchy.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Your loa4 idea makes sense if you don't want to ignore.And -depending</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> on your implementation, like you say you'd get identity transforms -no</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> joint motion- for joints MotionClip doesn't have.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> -Doug</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 5:20 PM Joseph D Williams <</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - and they have a brief statement somewhere saying its ignored ie</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> the values field has it, but the humanoid doesn;t.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - But they didn't say mathematically what to do about it.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> OK, so there are Motion values for a joint in from the capture</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> skeleton but either they do not apply to a Joint in the playback skeleton,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> or there is no corresponding joint in the playback skeleton. Thus, as an</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> author, you just want to ignore that set of values in the Motion values</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> field.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> For a typical animation routine, if you send events to a node that is</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> not there, you get an error.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> If there is a Joint in the capture skeleton that does not appear in</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> the playback skeleton, then you don?t try to send events to that joint,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> because it is not there. So, if the Joint is actually present, then that</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Joint will remain in its default orientation.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> This is OK, and the skeleton does not mind at all, it is like the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Joint is not there except it is and may have child Joint hierarchy. Of</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> course in that case the parent of the ignored joint controls the child</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> hierarchy. If whatever animation device is under the covers thinks it must</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> send data to that joint, then don?t use the Motion values, just send 0 0 1</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> 0 each cycle.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Ignore, means Hey, my capture skeleton has a Joint and I have data for</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> it but my playback skeleton does not have that joint. I am trying to</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> import, for example, some LOA4 animations into my LOA3 playback skeleton.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> As an author you are choosing to refuse to give your loa3 an update and you</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> must confess that fact by using IGNORE in your Motion node list.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> At least that has been my experience, when using animations aimed at a</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> higher or lower loa than the playback skeleton. For lower loa playback</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> skeleton, just comment out the interpolators and routes for the unused</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Joint nodes. If higher loa playback skeleton, then problems because the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> hierarchy does not care about ignoring intermediate joints. Just don?t send</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> data or if you must, just send 0 0 1 0 to the ignored joint.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> This is again why you want to just go ahead and start work with the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> loa4 playback skeleton. Because it is ok to ignore it if you don?t have</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> data for it. It is always not ok to not send data to something that is not</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> there and any browser should tell you and probably should fail if you try</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> to do that.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Thanks,.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *From: *GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, June 24, 2020 3:33 PM</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Cc: *Spec Feedback <<a href="mailto:spec-comment@web3d.org" target="_blank">spec-comment@web3d.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19774-2: HAnim</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Motion Capture -V1.0</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> The IGNORED is in the Motion AnnexD example scene:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <HAnimMotion frameCount="392" enabled='true' loop='true' frameTime =</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> "0.033333" frameDuration=".033333"</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> joints="humanoid_root, l_hip, l_knee, l_talocrural, r_hip,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> r_knee, r_talocrural, vl5, IGNORED, l_shoulder,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> l_elbow, l_radiocarpal, IGNORED, r_shoulder,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> r_elbow,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> r_radiocarpal, IGNORED, skullbase"</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> and they have a brief statement somewhere saying its ignored ie the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> values field has it, but the humanoid doesn;t.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> But they didn't say mathematically what to do about it. My</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> interpretation is that you would accumulate the ignored values as you go</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> down the bvh limb tree to get the next joint. If you're working</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> call-by-call, to make sure the transform fetcher understands what's been</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> skipped, you woult tell it the previous joint you asked for when asking for</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> the next (and it would look at the bvh and see you are ignoring some joints)</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> getNextJointTransform(lastJoint,currentJoint,time,&transform)</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> something like that. I'm not doing that yet, and haven't proven the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> theory of joint transform accumulation.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> The likely reason the AnnexD model didn't seem to mind / looked like</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> its bvh animation in blender: the IGNORED values were zeros anyway. I was</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> lucky,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> The nature of matching up free downloaded bvh with any loa hanim</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> character I have means we;ll be skipping and some and some joints never</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> captured by the mocap system / not in the bvh list. For freewrl users,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> that's OK - doesn't need to be perfect, just needs to get us into the game</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> and having fun experimenting. .</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> -Doug</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 4:18 PM Joseph D Williams <</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - - IGNORE - the transform fetcher needs to accumulate the ignored</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> transforms to apply to the next non-ignored joint in the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Not sure what the transform fetcher does but this is no different than</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> having an intermediate joint that is not animated.? In operation, not</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> animating a Joint does not cause any problems. That is why it is always</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> good to pick the loa4 skeleton for most fun. If a joint is ignored, it is</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> just not animated and remains in its default position. Its children may</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> still be animated.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Anyway, am I missing something? Ignored just means there is no</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> animation driving that Joint. The bigger problem is when you have animation</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> trying to drive a joint that is not there. Mostly the browser will tell you</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> that.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - No need for the software to complain if bvh doesn't match.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> I think if Motion node cannot find a matching Joint somewhere, then</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> failure until you get the list right and all named joints matched up[.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> If you look at some sample typical timer/interpolator/route setup and</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> you try to drive a joint that is not there or has the different name, then</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> it will usually tell you about missing sources or targets. Maybe I don?t</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> understand what ignore refers to? What does ignore refer to? A Joint in the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Humanoid skeleton, a joint in the capture skeleton, or a set of data for a</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> joint in the bvh file?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Thanks,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *From: *GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, June 24, 2020 5:56 AM</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *To: *Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Cc: *Spec Feedback <<a href="mailto:spec-comment@web3d.org" target="_blank">spec-comment@web3d.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19774-2: HAnim</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Motion Capture -V1.0</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> No need for the software to complain if bvh doesn't match.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Already in the HAnim2 specification for Motion they use the IGNORE</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> keyword when when HH is skipping a joint the bvh has. Not shown in the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> spec, but likely to happen is the bvh not having a joint that the HH has,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> what I call NOT_IMPLEMENTED, to keep it separate from IGNORE</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - IGNORE - the transform fetcher needs to accumulate the ignored</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> transforms to apply to the next non-ignored joint in the limb tree I didn't</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> do this yet, but should have it somewhere, so it applies also in in the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> original Motion node if there are IGNOREs.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - NOT_IMPLEMENTED (bvh doesn't have the joint) - the HH would get an</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> identity transform back for that joint.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> -Doug</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 9:36 PM Joseph D Williams <</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - Then one mapping node ?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Currently the Humanoid skeleton declares its active Joint nodes by</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> naming each Joint node and by including list of used Joints in the Humanoid</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> joints field.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> I think the Motion node also declares the joints it wants to use by</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> listing in the Motion node.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> To my knowledge there is no requirement that the Humanoid joints list</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> be in any specific order.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> I think the Humanoid Motion joints field needs the list in some order</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> relating to the data.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> The point is that for Motion to work, it must find the appropriate</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Joint name in the Humanoid joints field.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> My only big point is that both of those lists should look about the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> same (MF strings). If you want a skeleton that is matched to the bvh data,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> then we change the names in the imported bvh to match the names used in the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> skeleton field and enumerated in the Humanoid joints field. Some help could</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> be given to an author helping to match the bvh skeleton nomenclature with</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> the Humanoid joints. Or if you are really serious about using bvh data,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> then gather enough examples to suggest a ?typical standard? bvh skeleton</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> and data, then compose a skeleton in the Humanoid skeleton field to match</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> and then you might use a ?typical standard? Motion fields.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> The main idea of the Humanoid joints field is to list the actual</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> joints that are available in the skeleton model. The purpose of the joints</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> list in the Motion node is to declare which of those joints will be active</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> in the current simulation. In this case, if the capture skeleton is the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> same as the playback skeleton, no problem to just change the data.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> So, the only things the browser needs to figure out is: Do the Motion</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> joints match the skeleton joints and complain if not.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Best Regards and Thanks for thoughts on this.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *From: *Spec Feedback <<a href="mailto:spec-comment@web3d.org" target="_blank">spec-comment@web3d.org</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, June 23, 2020 6:02 AM</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *To: *<a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> *Subject: *[x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19774-2: HAnim Motion</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Capture -V1.0</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> -- Submitter indicates that this comment may be public: *Yes* --</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Comment on 19774-2: HAnim Motion Capture - V1.0</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> -----------------</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Proposed Explicit Name Mapping node</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> NameMapping</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> MFString A []</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> MFString B []</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Esample:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Discussion:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> not necessary to have IGNORED or NOT_IMPLEMENTED - that would be the</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> default</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> if not found during lookup.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Then one mapping node can be used for multiple .bvh from various</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> sources.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Putting a mapping node into both HAnimHumanoid HH and</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> HAnimMotionClip/Data</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> HMC would allow a 2-step lookup:</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - HH to loa, loa to HMC</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - A previous comment shows the math advantage of 2 step</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> If no mapping nodes present, browser would assume names are same in HH</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> and</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> HMC</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> - if one mapping node in either HH or HMC, then a 1-step lookup is done</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> -----------------</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> Submitted on Tuesday, 2020, June 23 - 7:02am</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> by dougsanden (dougsanden )</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> IP: 75.159.18.239</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> See: <a href="https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/4051" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/4051</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> x3d mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> x3d mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>> <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> x3d-public mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>> <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> >>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > x3d-public mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> > <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> ></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> -------------- next part --------------</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> URL: <<a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20200628/82c433f3/attachment.html" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20200628/82c433f3/attachment.html</a>></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> ------------------------------</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> Subject: Digest Footer</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> _______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> x3d-public mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> ------------------------------</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> End of x3d-public Digest, Vol 135, Issue 175</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> ********************************************</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Andreas Plesch</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Waltham, MA 02453</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>_______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>x3d-public mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>