<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>> He confirmed that, rather than Inline (which would be preserved verbatim on saving) it is possible to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>- open a glTF model in view3dscene, then<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>- save as X3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Wonderful work, Thank You very much. I think this should be realistic X3D authoring tool requirement for all the various glTF data imports.</p><p class=MsoNormal>Does it follow then, that an author should have the choice whether to edit in X3D or glTF form? I think so. But especially in the import of hanim data, I think the author must be able to get control of any glTF hierarchy and animation data by editing using X3D encodings. Otherwise, unless you are a specialist in adapting the glTF structures, that is not the form for careful editing. Only really designed for export from an authoring tool. Of course that also means that the author using a complete X3D authoring tool ought to be able to compose in X3D and export some of the bits and pieces to glTF for delivery. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Also, for the BVH imports in hanim, it is important that we can import BVH and edit (get control) of it as X3D user code, but I don’t think it is important to be able to export BVH from X3D.</p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks, </p><p class=MsoNormal>Joe </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">Don Brutzman</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, September 29, 2020 10:19 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:michalis.kambi@gmail.com">Michalis Kamburelis</a>; <a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com">Andreas Plesch</a>; <a href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com">Richard F. Puk</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a>; <a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com">Andreas Plesch</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Physically Based Rendering gltf examples in .x3dform; design approach confirmed, encourage X3D4 implementation</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Meeting today: Michalis Dick Don, regrets (and feedback) from Andreas.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Michalis has the following .x3dv examples prepared:</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>[6] michaliskambi > x3d-tests > pbr</p><p class=MsoNormal> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/tree/master/pbr</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>He graciously agreed to export XML .x3d versions as well so I don't spend time (or make errors) transcribing them in preparation for regression testing.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>He will also add screenshots for each model so that everyone knows what expected rendering looks like.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We hope that this really facilitates other X3D4 implementations and encourages consistent presentation.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The above examples are all authored by Michalis and in open source, some textures are by others and given appropriate credit.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On 9/29/2020 7:32 AM, Don Brutzman wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> With X3D XML Schema and DOCTYPE complete, and X3D Schematron rules addable without too much difficulty, we're ready for next steps.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> As part of examples improvements, am hoping to put them in our archives so that regression testing can be performed.</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> [1] X3D Resources, Example Archives</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html#Examples</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> May I suggest that we create an PhysicallyBasedRendering section directory for these at</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> [2] X3D for Advanced Modeling (X3D4AM) Examples Archive</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForAdvancedModeling/</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We agreed to put copies of them there, matching and in open source (of course). Thank you Michalis.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Wondering, where might I find the examples you've shown? Am looking at</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> [3] michaliskambi > x3d-tests ></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Include PBR (PhysicalMaterial and related concepts) in the official X3D specification</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Include-PBR-%28PhysicalMaterial-and-related-concepts%29-in-the-official-X3D-specification</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> and then</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> [4] michaliskambi > x3d-tests > Converting glTF to X3D</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Converting-glTF-to-X3D</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> and then</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> [5] castle-engine > demo-models > glTF > sample models for Castle Game Engine</p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://github.com/castle-engine/demo-models/tree/master/gltf</p><p class=MsoNormal>> </p><p class=MsoNormal>> Wondering how to establish a baseline. Might it be possible to use Castle Engine to Inline load each of these gltf examples and save each one of them back out as X3D?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>He confirmed that, rather than Inline (which would be preserved verbatim on saving) it is possible to</p><p class=MsoNormal>- open a glTF model in view3dscene, then</p><p class=MsoNormal>- save as X3D</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>An update to the following converter is in progress to match the latest X3D4 node signatures, will be finished soon. At that point anyone can perform this step via</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>[7] Castle Game Engine: Convert everything to X3D</p><p class=MsoNormal> https://castle-engine.io/convert.php</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We will work on those Khronos-provided glTF examples after adapting his existing examples for regression testing.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Primary format in the example archives is XML .x3d file encoding, preforming maximum validations, then all other variants are then converted from that in order to check proper X3D representations in X3DOM, X_ITE, ClassicVRML, JSON, EXI, Java, Python, Turtle, and pretty-print HTML documentation.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Interestingly X_ITE and X3DOM versions are automatically provided as part of this Web3D Examples Archive endeavor. Helpful for checking.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Looking forward to getting into pair-wise production and publication together.</p><p class=MsoNormal>Additional implementations: the past week's work on XML Schema and X3DUOM have each provided significant implementation checks that the interface hierarchy is coherent and consistent, without internal contradictions. X3D Tooltips add clarity and link to various representations. X3D Validator provides error checking.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>[8] X3D Specifications: Schema and DOCTYPE Validation</p><p class=MsoNormal> https://www.web3d.org/specifications</p><p class=MsoNormal> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSchemaDocumentation4.0/x3d-4.0.html</p><p class=MsoNormal> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dDoctypeDocumentation4.0.html</p><p class=MsoNormal> </p><p class=MsoNormal>[9] X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM) v4</p><p class=MsoNormal> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dUnifiedObjectModel-4.0.xml</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>[10] X3DJSAIL: X3D Java Scene Access Interface Library</p><p class=MsoNormal> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/java/X3DJSAIL.html</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>[11] X3D Validator</p><p class=MsoNormal> https://savage.nps.edu/X3dValidator</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Next: Dick and I will work on clarifying X3D4 specification prose further in a follow-on session this week.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The three of us all think it is fair to say that the PBR design is now complete and correct. All of our major questions are answered satisfactorily. We are next pursuing implementation and evaluation of examples to confirm that conclusion. This work is already implemented in open-source Castle Game Engine / view3dscene.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Suggest that other rendering implementations can now proceed with a high degree of confidence that integration of glTF, physically based rendering (PBR) and non-photorealistic rendering (NPR) is feasible and ready for implementation by other X3D4 players.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Again thanks to Michalis for superlative design/implementation efforts, again thanks to everyone who helped with many questions critiques and contributions. Totally impressive team effort.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On our way... Have fun with advanced rendering in X3D4!! 8)</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>all the best, Don</p><p class=MsoNormal>-- </p><p class=MsoNormal>Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman@nps.edu</p><p class=MsoNormal>Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149</p><p class=MsoNormal>X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>x3d-public mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>x3d-public@web3d.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>