<div dir="ltr">Thanks so much for these insights ~!<div><br></div><div>I will edit the next draft with these points in mind!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>br,</div><div>_n</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:26 AM Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>On glTF Metadata:</div><div><br></div><div>Core glTF has limited, unstructured metadata using the extra property for any object.</div><div><br></div><div>In addition, there is now a glTF extension which adopts the Adobe XMP standard for structured metadata:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Khronos/KHR_xmp" target="_blank">https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Khronos/KHR_xmp</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Since glTF extensions are not required and are in fact not well supported by most glTF viewers, I think it is appropriate to compare X3D with just core glTF.</div><div><br></div><div>In terms of phrasing of how X3D offers advantages over glTF it may be more persuasive to avoid negatives of glTF and instead use positive language relating to X3D.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>-Andreas</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 6:46 AM Michalis Kamburelis <<a href="mailto:michalis.kambi@gmail.com" target="_blank">michalis.kambi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Browsing the document on <a href="https://webx3d.org/integrating-x3d-and-gltf/" target="_blank">https://webx3d.org/integrating-x3d-and-gltf/</a> , I would suggest some updates:<br></div><div></div><div><br></div><div>> The material model of many 3D objects is still defined through<span> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinn%E2%80%93Phong_shading_model" target="_blank">Blinn-Phong</a><span> </span>shading Appearances. X3D and tools support these natively, while glTF requires an (yet to be finalized) Extension</div><div><br></div><div>That is true (glTF requires extensions to use Phong lighting model in glTF), but may be a bit misleading to outsiders reading it :) In 90% cases, if you use glTF, then you want to use the more modern PBR material from glTF.</div><div><br></div><div>Using Phong lighting + glTF is probably not a significant need.<br></div><div><br></div><div>> <span></span>PBR benefits from environment lights and X3D already includes support<span> </span>for environmental CubeMaps through the CubeMapTexturing Component</div><div><br></div><div>X3D supports cubemaps by CubeMapTexturingComponent, but it does not yet support environment lights. This is planned to be added as EnvironmentLight to X3D (maybe 4.1) that will refer to X3DEnvironmentTextureNode. See <a href="https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/X3D-version-4%3A-New-features-of-materials%2C-lights-and-textures#deferred-to-x3d-41-new-environmentlight-node" target="_blank">https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/X3D-version-4%3A-New-features-of-materials%2C-lights-and-textures#deferred-to-x3d-41-new-environmentlight-node</a> .<br></div><div><br></div><div>> Phong material + GLSL
(X3D 4.0 will support PBR by Inlining glTF 2.0 models)</div><div><br></div><div>Right now X3Dv4 (working draft 2) supports PBR by PhysicalMaterial node (regardless of glTF, you can just use PhysicalMaterial to get PBR in "pure" X3D).</div><div><br></div><div>Browsers that allow to inline glTF may (and I would advise so) to do this by also using the PhysicalMaterial node underneath.</div><div><br></div><div>So PhysicalMaterial has 2 important use-cases :)<br></div><div><br></div><div>So we're even better than this text suggests :)<br></div><div><br></div><div>> Thus glTF’s sweet spot is focusing on the asset delivery problem between
network and GPU. Its core does not represent many of the crucial
ingredients for 3D worlds, including lights, interactivity, and
structured metadata functionality...</div><div></div><div><br></div><div>glTF supports metadata. It is also already used in practice by Blender->glTF exporter that can write metadata from custom fields at Blender objects.<br></div><div><br></div><div></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Michalis<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">śr., 7 paź 2020 o 05:00 Anita Havele <<a href="mailto:anita.havele@web3d.org" target="_blank">anita.havele@web3d.org</a>> napisał(a):<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p style="text-align:center;margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%"><b>Web3D
Monthly News
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<p style="text-align:center;margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%"><span style="color:rgb(165,42,42)"><span style="font-size:12px">October 2020
Highlights: </span></span><br>
<span style="font-size:12px;text-align:left">X3D Version 4 draft release - Integrating X3D into
HTML5 <br>
Web3D 2020
Conference
9-13 November
2020 -
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<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%;text-align:left">Web3D
Consortium
continues its
mission
to promote
open
interactive 3D
standards by
informing you
on the
advancements
of its <a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/what-x3d" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">ISO standard X3D</a>. The Web3D
community is
implementing
3D for
business
critical
applications,
while
converging
with related
3D
technologies
and trends.
Every month we
curate
multiple
topics to help
provide
clarity around
the future of
X3D graphics
and it’s
ecosystem. We
begin with <b><a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3dv4-highlights" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">X3D Version 4.0</a></b>.</p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%;text-align:left">The
ability to
access 3D
graphics
hardware from
within the Web
browser is a
true game
changer. As
Web browsers
have improved
the speed of
JavaScript
engines, they
have provided
everyone
access to
graphics
hardware
through WebGL.
The result is
a performant
mix of
declarative
content,
procedural
graphics, and
event-based
logic. As new
technologies
and features
stabilize and
standards
evolve, 3D
graphics
developers
have the
archival
stability of
well-tested
long-lasting
specifications
to build upon.</p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%;text-align:left"> Web3D
Consortium's
X3D Version
4.0 is
leveraging
many of the
lessons
learned from
the <b>W3C
Declarative 3D</b>
Community and
open source
plugin-free
WebGL, to
integrate X3D
into HTML5.
Open source
implementation
of <b><a href="https://www.x3dom.org/" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">X3DOM </a></b>and <b><a href="http://create3000.de/x_ite/getting-started/" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">X_ITE, </a></b>both JavaScript
X3D
implementations
have
demonstrated
integration
with <b>WebGL,
glTF, HTML5 </b>and
the DOM. <br>
<img style="border: 0px none; width: 50px; height: 50px; margin: 0px; outline: currentcolor none medium; text-decoration: none;" title="Html5" width="50" height="50">
<img style="border: 0px none; width: 100px; height: 41px; margin: 0px; outline: currentcolor none medium; text-decoration: none;" width="100" height="41">
<img style="width: 100px; height: 50px; margin: 0px; outline: currentcolor none medium; text-decoration: none;" width="100" height="50"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3dv4-highlights" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><img style="border: 0px none; width: 75px; height: 62px; margin: 0px; outline: currentcolor none medium; text-decoration: none;" width="75" height="62"></a></p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%;text-align:left">A high-level
view of these
leading open
formats and
how and why
they should be
used together
is detailed in
the blog, <a href="https://www.webx3d.org/integrating-x3d-and-gltf" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Integrating X3D
and glTF</a>. <b>"Box
of X3D" news
post and X3D
model <a href="http://webx3d.org/box-of-x3d-oct-2020" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">here</a>. </b><br>
<a href="https://webx3d.org/box-of-x3d/" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><img style="border: 0px none; width: 200px; height: 111px; margin: 0px; outline: currentcolor none medium; text-decoration: none;" width="200" height="111"></a><a href="https://webx3d.org/box-of-x3d/" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><img style="border: 0px none; width: 190px; height: 106px; margin: 0px; outline: currentcolor none medium; text-decoration: none;" width="190" height="106"></a></p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%;text-align:left">X3D 4.0
also brings
forward the
multiple file
formats and
programming
languages, <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3DUOM.html" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">X3D Unified
Object Model
(X3DUOM)</a> which
enables
authors to
create,
validate, and
manipulate X3D
content in a
large number
of file
encodings
(XML, JSON,
Binary,
ClassicVRML)
and
programming-language
bindings
(JavaScript,
Java, C#, C++,
C, Python).</p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%;text-align:left"> Also
included in
version 4.0 is
full
integration of
the <a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Web Audio API</a> adding
high-fidelity
sound
propagation,
rendering and
mixing
techniques
together with
advanced sound
processing
capabilities.</p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%;text-align:left">A <a href="https://www.web3d.org/news-story/x3dv4-draft-specification-available-public-now" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">public draft</a> was released at
Web3D/SIGGRAPH
2019, and
another update
in August
2020. The X3D
Working Group
and Web3D
Consortium are
completing the
review and
approval
process this
year and
submitting for
ISO-IEC
ratification
in December
2020. </p>
<p style="margin:10px 0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:16px;line-height:150%;text-align:left">X3D 4.0
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we extend X3D
to make native
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<td style="text-align:left" height="0"><span style="font-size:12px"><a href="http://www.webx3d.org" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://www.webx3d.org</a>
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<div style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:10px"><i>About
Web3D: Web3D
is a nonprofit
organization
that develops
and maintains
the X3D, VRML,
and HAnim
international
standards.
These are 3D
graphics file
formats and
run-time
specifications
for the
delivery and
integration of
interactive 3D
data over
networks.
Web3D
Consortium
members work
together to
produce open,
royalty-free
and
ISO-ratified
capabilities
for the Web.</i></span></div>
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<td style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12px"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/news-events" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><b>Upcoming
Events</b></a></span></td>
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<td style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12px"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/example" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><b> X3D
Examples</b></a></span></td>
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<td style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12px"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/standards" style="color:rgb(0,124,137);font-weight:normal;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><b>X3D
Specification</b></a></span></td>
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© 2020 Web3D
Consortium, All rights
reserved.</i><br>
<br>
<b>Our mailing
address is:</b><br>
133 Lorimer Street,
Salinas, California
93901 USA<br>
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<center> <br></center>
<table id="gmail-m_8815150226003673024gmail-m_2131279547655073323m_5464421544565208829gmail-m_-8605057763157421241canspamBarWrapper" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);border-top:1px solid rgb(229,229,229)" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
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<div>-- <br>
Best regards,<br>
Anita-Havele<br>
____________________________<br>
Executive Director, Web3D Consortium <a href="http://www.web3d.org" target="_blank"><b>www.web3d.org</b></a><br>
Email: <a href="mailto:anita.havele@web3d.org" target="_blank">anita.havele@web3d.org</a> - Phone: +1 248 342 7662 <br>
133 Lorimer, Salinas California 93901 USA<br>
<a href="http://www.web3d.org/havele" target="_blank"><b>http://www.web3d.org/havele</b></a></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Andreas Plesch<br>Waltham, MA 02453</div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">Nicholas F. Polys, Ph.D.<br><br>Director of Visual Computing <br>Virginia Tech Research Computing <br><br>Affiliate Professor<br>Virginia Tech Department of Computer Science<br></div>