<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>The archive has been updated.</div>
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<div>. Removed the unused prototype</div>
<div> two additional editorial corrections</div>
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<div>to be crystal clear: the optimum would be to have a clear X3D standard and to remove the workaround forever.</div>
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<div>@all: do other users have similar experiences with ProtoInstances, DEF and USE? I am not the only user of X3D, am I?</div>
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<div>kr</div>
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 29. November 2020 um 15:39 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin@gmx.at><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Andreas Plesch" <andreasplesch@gmail.com><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public@web3d.org><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [x3d-public] ProtoInstance USE without name</div>
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<div class="mail_android_message" style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.5em;">Hi Andreas,<br/>
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The MoosTrigger can be deleted. I forgot it there, sorry (it would be used for MU capability). I will correct asap.<br/>
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The only theory I have is that the external behaviour of scripts and protos regarding the event cascade is very similar. Both have fields that can be arbitrarily defined. So a reference to a script can hold a reference to a ProtoInstance.<br/>
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Sorry I am not a Browser developer, but I am a (potential) user of X3D, dont know so much about X3D internals. It could even be an intention of the standard.<br/>
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kr<br/>
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--<br/>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.</div>
<div class="mail_android_quote" style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.3em;">Am 29.11.20, 15:24 schrieb Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch@gmail.com>:
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<div>Hi Christoph,</div>
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<div>The Pig proto is using a "Moostrigger" proto. Should the Mosstrigger proto be included in the archive, or can it be ignored, eg. commented out ?</div>
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<div>I am struggling to understand how Version C, the Script workaround, could work:</div>
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<div><!-- the second pig , version C - ProtoInstance WITHOUT name --><br/>
<Transform translation='3 0 0' rotation='0 1 0 -1.57'><br/>
<Script USE="ThePig"/><br/>
</Transform></div>
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<div>and the ThePig DEF is:</div>
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<div><ProtoInstance DEF="ThePig" name='Pig'/></div>
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<div>So the ThePig DEF is not a Script node. ( And the Pig proto is of Group type. ). It seems like it is just a coincidence that it works with BSContact. Perhaps BSContact somehow treats all ProtoInstances as Scripts ?</div>
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<div>Do you have a theory why the workaround actually works with some browsers ?</div>
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<div>Thanks, Andreas</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 3:46 PM Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com'; return false;" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Thanks, I will take a look.<br/>
<div>---on the phone---</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 9:17 AM Christoph Valentin <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Hi Andreas,</div>
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<div>I felt free to provide an example scene in three flavors.</div>
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<div>The prototype renders a little pig that says "Eatme!", when you touch it (in remembrance of Douglas Adams)</div>
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<div>Version A: <ProtoInstance USE="xxx" name="yyy"/> WITH name attribute - standards compliant</div>
<div>Version B: <ProtoInstance USE="xxx"/> WITHOUT name attribute</div>
<div>Version C: <Script USE="xxx"/> WORKAROUND - works for all browsers</div>
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<div>I tested with BS Contact --- he can cope with all three versions.</div>
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<div>Download the .zip file at <a href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental/ProtoInstanceWithUSE/" target="_blank">https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental/ProtoInstanceWithUSE/</a> I provide it by a GPLv3.</div>
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<div>Feed Back welcome. You may take it and give it to your benchmark tests, if you like.</div>
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<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
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<div style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 10.0px;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 24. November 2020 um 00:30 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Andreas Plesch" <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com'; return false;" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org'; return false;" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [x3d-public] ProtoInstance USE without name</div>
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<div>Hi Christoph,
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<div>thanks, interesting. Perhaps it will be useful to try a USE ProtoInstance in a very simple scene, in multiple browsers.</div>
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<div>-Andreas</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 1:01 PM Christoph Valentin <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Hi</div>
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<div>This bug is common to many X3D players (even classical non-WebGL X3D players).</div>
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<div>I was used to use following workaround, which worked for all relevant players:</div>
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<div>If I want to USE a DEFd ProtoInstance, I will actually instantiate a <Script> node with USE.</div>
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<div>KR,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
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<div style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 10.0px;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 23. November 2020 um 00:00 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Andreas Plesch" <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com'; return false;" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>><br/>
<b>An:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org'; return false;" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] ProtoInstance USE without name</div>
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<div>Looking at why the old Prototypes for HAnim did not work properly for x3dom, I found that the xml examples typically have a ProtoInstance statement with a USE attribute but without the corresponding name attribute defining the actual node type. However, x3dom expects a name attribute with every ProtoInstance statement, even USE ones, to be able to insert the appropriate node.
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<div>The xml spec at</div>
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<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/concepts.html#ProtoInstanceAndFieldValueStatement" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/concepts.html#ProtoInstanceAndFieldValueStatement</a></div>
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<div>does not address USE of ProtoInstances but all examples always have a name attribute.</div>
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<div>Also, in my quite extensive testing of Protos, I did not come across other examples of ProtoInstance elements without a name attribute.</div>
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<div>To be fair, the name attribute is not strictly necessary for USE ProtoInstances since the type of the inserted node can be determined from the referenced DEF node. But having the name attribute makes ProtoInstance elements more similar to regular nodes. So I think not requiring the name attribute for USE ProtoInstances should be explicitly allowed in the xml spec., but still be encouraged.</div>
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<div>I do not think the xml spec. would be otherwise affected by V.4 ?</div>
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<div>Best, Andreas</div>
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<div>--
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<div>Andreas Plesch<br/>
Waltham, MA 02453</div>
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<div>Andreas Plesch<br/>
Waltham, MA 02453</div>
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<div>Andreas Plesch<br/>
Waltham, MA 02453</div>
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