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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I’m not hiring anyone. I want to see a proof of concept first. I would hope if I know a bit of X3D or learn a bit, I could bring up a DIS example. I don’t want to document anything that initially doesn’t work.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>For example, we could get this example working with 2 or more people perhaps:</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/DistributedInteractiveSimulation/EspduTransformSenderReceiverIndex.html">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/DistributedInteractiveSimulation/EspduTransformSenderReceiverIndex.html</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>It seems to be working, but I don’t know what it does yet.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Here are the IP addresses in X3D DIS Resources (above folder):</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>224.0.0.3</p><p class=MsoNormal>224.2.181.145</p><p class=MsoNormal>239.1.2.3</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>[ these are multicast addresses. I will have to learn a bit about multicast perhaps ]</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Here are the ports in the X3D DIS Resources.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>62040</p><p class=MsoNormal>64200</p><p class=MsoNormal><br>If we could get a MU X3D DIS resource example working, that would be really cool. But it looks like it has to be point-to-point unless we can get some multicast running?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I don’t yet see any DIS/PDU examples in X_ITE. Perhaps we could work on one with Holger to come up with an example for the create3000 Library? The DIS nodes appear to be there.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>This appears to be a useful site (beyond open-dis). This site has both a DIS javaScript client and server:</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://github.com/keckxde/node-disnetworkclient">https://github.com/keckxde/node-disnetworkclient</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I’m not using node.js/npm for another day or two.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Anyway, it looks like we have several more places to research before we give up on DIS.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Again, we can’t create arbitrary packets that fly across the network, potentially through ,any organizations. They must be able to be sniffed for “bad” stuff, or encrypted, etc.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>From the nodes that list DIS address and port in the X3D standard, we can begin to create a MU standard. Or we decide on what protocols are acceptable to the Connection url.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>John</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at">Christoph Valentin</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, January 5, 2021 6:51 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John Carlson</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi John,<br><br>As you might know, I suggested a twin project:<br><br>1) S&P-ARK shall elaborate the community requirements for the NSN<br><br>2) P&S-ARK shall elaborate the "celestial" ;-) requirements for the NSN.<br><br>So for the second twin we must hire DIS experts.<br><br>kr<br><br>-- <br>Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Am 06.01.21, 01:40 schrieb John Carlson <yottzumm@gmail.com>:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'>I’m not disagreeing with you, but I prefer to know history before seeking the future, so I don’t make the same mistakes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'><a href="http://x3dgraphics.com/slidesets/X3dForAdvancedModeling/DistributedInteractiveSimulation.pdf">http://x3dgraphics.com/slidesets/X3dForAdvancedModeling/DistributedInteractiveSimulation.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'>John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at">Christoph Valentin</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, January 5, 2021 6:11 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John Carlson</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Aw: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>DIS is IEEE. IEEE is not open minded. Just does not fit to the spirit of the Internet.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>We should work on the successor of DIS. This is our mission.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:9.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid #C3D9E5 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div style='margin-bottom:7.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:24.6pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Gesendet:</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> Mittwoch, 06. Januar 2021 um 01:07 Uhr<br><b>Von:</b> "John Carlson" <yottzumm@gmail.com><br><b>An:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public@web3d.org><br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I think the last time we brought this up, there was some issue about fields shouldn’t be flexible in the network protocol, because it would be too difficult to write virus or intrusion rules for scanning the packets. I think we’re back to the DIS standard. Please state your objections to DIS, perhaps we can work on the DIS standard?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>John</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com">GL</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, January 5, 2021 11:53 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>Now that's more like it. Thanks for the link John.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>I do not know why people are discussing the use of different network protocols for client-server connections, when HTTP on TCP works just fine for our purpose. This is not where the bottleneck is, the kernel is. Plus, HTTP is already supported with most operating systems, that in addition to the fact that we are here to discuss X3D, not network protocols. The same can largely apply to client-client connections.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>When I express a desire for standardizing a NetworkSensor node, it has in fact little to do with the underlying network protocol. What I wish to standardize is the node itself. So let's see what we have so far as per </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'><a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/Networking/NetworkSensorConnectionNodes.html">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/Networking/NetworkSensorConnectionNodes.html</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><h2><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>9.4.4 Connection</span><o:p></o:p></h2><pre><span style='color:black'>Connection: X3DNetworkSensorNode {</span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'> SFBool [in,out] enabled TRUE</span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'> SFNode [in,out] metadata NULL [X3DMetadataObject]</span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'> SFBool [out] isActive FALSE</span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'> MFString [in,out] url ["x3dp://localhost:80/"]</span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'> SFInt32 [in] protocol 0 [0,65535]</span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'> SFTime [in,out] timeOut 0</span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'> SFBool [in] secure TRUE</span></pre><pre style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'>}</span></pre><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black'>9.4.5 NetworkSensor</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>NetworkSensor : X3DNetworkSensorNode {</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> SFBool [in,out] enabled TRUE</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> SFNode [in,out] metadata NULL [X3DMetadataObject]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> SFBool [out] isActive</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> SFNode [in out] connection NULL [Connection node only]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> SFString [in] httpRequest ""</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> MFString [out] httpResponse NULL</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> SFString [] channelId ""</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> # And any number of:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> fieldType [in] fieldName</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> fieldType [in,out] fieldName</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> fieldType [out] fieldName</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> fieldType [] fieldName</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>}</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>As you can see, this is rather incomplete, more like just the skeleton of a node. Can we not build from here where it matters as far as X3D standards? And forget about lower protocol layers for a moment, especially that ideally X3D should be able to run on top of different internet/network protocols?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>If you really want to understand how MU works, this is where it begins, and defining the field names would be a very good start.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>The above page states that "</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>a proper implementation requires native X3D-player support and a full Prototype-based implementation is not possible."</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>, which is only partially correct, since X3Daemon is such an implementation, at least when it comes to section 9.4.5. X3Daemon relies on the X3D player for 9.4.4 because it is readily available, but there are no reason why anyone couldn't make their own implementation. The section 9.4.4 is also probably where the line should be drawn as far as X3D's jurisdiction concerning network protocols.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>There are currently two main implementations of the above that comes to mind: BS Collaborate and X3Daemon (do I forget something??).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>We should probably need to reconcile, add or change the field names and the types in order to finalize this standard.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>I do not see much more that we need. After being stuck here for over a decade, I am still not sure why. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>The above is required if we want to standardize connections across both clients and servers, regardless of protocols. That is what will allow world objects and avatars to work as intended for using the same type definitions, field names and parameters. This would facilitate connections between worlds, and potentially let avatars travel around them. An avatar made for one world would work in a different one, a world made for one server would work with a different server, clients could talk to any others (providing listeners and response capabilities are built-in), and so on… GL </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Simplified Arabic Fixed";color:#1F497D'>________________________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Simplified Arabic Fixed";color:#1F497D'>* * * Interactive Multimedia - Internet Management * * *</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Simplified Arabic Fixed";color:#1F497D'> * * Virtual Reality -- Application Programming * *</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Simplified Arabic Fixed";color:#1F497D'> * 3D Net Productions 3dnetproductions.com *</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> x3d-public [mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Carlson<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 5, 2021 12:38 AM<br><b>To:</b> Christoph Valentin; Cecile Muller<br><b>Cc:</b> X3D Graphics public mailing list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I discovered this recently. It may assist you in your efforts for highly scalable systems:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><a href="http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/5/13/the-secret-to-10-million-concurrent-connections-the-kernel-i.html">http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/5/13/the-secret-to-10-million-concurrent-connections-the-kernel-i.html</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><br>In other words, you’re not limited to 16-bits worth of TCP ports on one server.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>My guess is they use multiple IP addresses (IPv6?) on a single server, but I’m not sure.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>If anyone does this, let us know how it goes.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>John</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at">Christoph Valentin</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, January 4, 2021 10:55 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:contact@wildpeaks.fr">Cecile Muller</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Isn't MQTT the protocol of the IoT?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>It needs a broker, doesn't it?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Just being curious.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>KR,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Christoph</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Gesendet: Dienstag, 05. Januar 2021 um 05:25 Uhr</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Von: "Cecile Muller" <contact@wildpeaks.fr></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>An: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public@web3d.org></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Good morning (and happy new year !),</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>If you want to build something multi-users, nowadays I'd recommend MQTT: it's not specific to 3D,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>so you'd still need to create the application on top of it, but you could reach both applications and webapps</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>with it (it can even run on low-end devices), and it's a proper documented standard.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Mosquitto on a small linux server is enough to get started,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>or you could use something like PubNub to not worry about scaling the backend.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>See you,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Cecile_______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing list x3d-public@web3d.org <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>x3d-public mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>x3d-public@web3d.org</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:24.6pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:17.1pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing list x3d-public@web3d.org <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>