<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><body><div class="ydpd95d7820yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hi, the zoom address for our meeting on Monday is this?<br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div>X3D Teleconference<br>>> <a href="https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09</a></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Please tell. Thank you very much.<br></div></div><div><br></div><div class="ydpd95d7820signature">-Jordi</div></div>
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On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 7:34:37 PM GMT+1, x3d-public-request@web3d.org <x3d-public-request@web3d.org> wrote:
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<div><div dir="ltr">Send x3d-public mailing list submissions to<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:x3d-public-request@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">x3d-public-request@web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">You can reach the person managing the list at<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:x3d-public-owner@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">x3d-public-owner@web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br></div><div dir="ltr">than "Re: Contents of x3d-public digest..."<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Today's Topics:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1. Re: [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D Architecture -<br></div><div dir="ltr"> V4.0; add Appearance alpha channel for consistency with glTF<br></div><div dir="ltr"> (Don Brutzman)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 2. X3D minutes 22 JAN 2021: X3D4 advancement, 2 Khronos issues,<br></div><div dir="ltr"> accessType adjustments, charter adjustment, adding tools<br></div><div dir="ltr"> (Don Brutzman)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 1<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 07:07:27 -0800<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Don Brutzman <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: Michalis Kamburelis <<a href="mailto:michalis.kambi@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">michalis.kambi@gmail.com</a>>, X3D Graphics<br></div><div dir="ltr"> public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cc: Don McCurdy <<a href="mailto:don.r.mccurdy@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don.r.mccurdy@gmail.com</a>>, X3D Graphics Working Group<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D<br></div><div dir="ltr"> Architecture - V4.0; add Appearance alpha channel for consistency with<br></div><div dir="ltr"> glTF<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:124d01db-b45a-36ba-c37c-cd858613a959@nps.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">124d01db-b45a-36ba-c37c-cd858613a959@nps.edu</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Issue and progress dialog shifted to public access.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Issue summary: add Appearance alpha channel for consistency with glTF capabilities.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[1] Specify alpha channel treatment (field alphaChannel for Appearance)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I believe that the corresponding glTF reference follows (please confirm).<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[2] GL Transmission Format (glTF) version 2.0, Alpha Coverage<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/specification/2.0#alpha-coverage" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/specification/2.0#alpha-coverage</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This issue is being tracked as<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[3] Mantis 1340: add Appearance alpha channel for consistency with glTF<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1340" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1340</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Michalis, please make X3D4 WD3 changes so that they can be applied directly in the github archive. Please update first.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Last week Dick and I confirmed that CSS styles "approved" and "approvedDeletion" so we will use those together. Have added initial section there, please modify as appropriate.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">On 1/22/2021 11:56 AM, Michalis Kamburelis wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Cool. I can work on it next week.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> It will be based on<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> . So a question goes to all browser implementors, how do you feel<br></div><div dir="ltr">> about this extension to X3D -- Appearance.alphaChannel?<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> I may think about renaming the field name and constants to be more<br></div><div dir="ltr">> consistent with glTF. The field is in Appearance -- as it overrides an<br></div><div dir="ltr">> auto-detection that normally takes into account both materials and<br></div><div dir="ltr">> textures.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> ( If we can move this to x3d-public, please let's do so. More eyes<br></div><div dir="ltr">> spot more bugs. )<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Should I write the prose on wiki page, or immediately make a pull<br></div><div dir="ltr">> request on GitHub?<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Regards,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Michalis<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> pt., 22 sty 2021 o 17:46 Don Brutzman <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> napisa?(a):<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> This all sounds great. Thank you.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Our weekly X3D working group meeting occurs soon. Michalis, I'll propose that if we can craft draft specification prose for review, over the next week or so, then this is an important response to the recent member specification review.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Am further happy to report that Wednesday's meeting of Web3D Board of Directors approved submission of the current Working Draft 3, plus comment resolutions, as initial Committee Draft (CD) for ISO/IEC submission. Completion of responses for this particular issue was already flagged as pending, so we are cleared to "do the right thing" here.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Our meeting starts shortly, 9-10 pacific time, you are each welcome to join if you like.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> * X3D Teleconference<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Having fun with X3D and glTF! 8)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> On 1/21/2021 2:23 AM, Michalis Kamburelis wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Thank you!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> As for x3d-public mention -- sorry, that was my mistake, I initially<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> thought that the spec comment (and thus my answer, and entire thread)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> are on x3d-public mailing list. Only later I realized they are on<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> closed x3d mailing list. I'll happily move the discussion to public<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> mailing list, x3d-public.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I'll wait for Don Brutzman whether we can squeeze it in X3D 4.0 or it<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> should wait for 4.1. If everyone is happy with my existing extension<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> , then it is straightforward to add. This extension is also already<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> used in Castle Game Engine when we import glTF models, and it allows<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> to exactly express the equivalent glTF value.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> As for the testcases proving that it is useful -- I already have some<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> even in pure X3D :) Indeed auto-detection just cannot work in<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> complicated cases (e.g. multiple textures with different alpha<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> channels in MultiTexture, combined with material transparency).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Regards,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Michalis<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> ?r., 20 sty 2021 o 23:49 Don McCurdy <<a href="mailto:don.r.mccurdy@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">don.r.mccurdy@gmail.com</a>> napisa?(a):<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Thanks Michalis!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> I think I've managed to join the x3d-public mailing list correctly (here?), but didn't find a thread for this topic ? is this the right place to reply, or did I miss a thread?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> In terms of use cases I often see from three.js and Blender users, the distinction between OPAQUE, BLEND, and MASK is an important one. As an engine implementor I am not confident in my own ability to guess what the intended alpha mode should be for a given material, even if I were to implement a (slow) scan of the texture pixel data. Arguably there is some additional value in other alpha modes, such as BLEND+MASK, or additive or multiplicative blending, but these are currently not within the scope of the glTF specification.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> All that to say I believe it's valuable information, and I could probably share some examples of glTF assets that might be difficult to render correctly without it, but I understand your interest in limiting increases to the scope of X3D 4.0 and I have no particular recommendation on targeting 4.0 or 4.1.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Don<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:05 PM Michalis Kamburelis <<a href="mailto:michalis.kambi@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">michalis.kambi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> ( I'm answering a spec feedback comment, adding also submitter (Don<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> McCurdy) to recipients. I don't know if you're a member of x3d-public<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> mailing list, but It happens that I know your email :) ).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> The explicit information about whether to use blending or alpha<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> testing is indeed not present anywhere in the X3D nodes. The browsers<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> have to detect it themselves, this was the case in X3D 3 and remains<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> in X3D 4 for now.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> I fully agree with the submitter that it is an important feature<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> missing. Indeed automatic detection of it (blending vs alpha testing)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> is "tricky" in non-trivial setups. Castle Game Engine does it, all X3D<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> browsers do it, but in some cases it is an "uncertain heuristic"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> and/or requires analyzing the texture contents (thus, not efficient).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> I do have a solution, implemented as X3D extension in Castle Game<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> Engine now: "Appearance.alphaChannel" field. It allows to explicitly<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> request treatment as opaque, blending, or alpha test. See the CGE<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> documentation for details:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> <a href="https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> .<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> And see my "glTF -> X3D" page where I document this:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> <a href="https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Converting-glTF-to-X3D" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Converting-glTF-to-X3D</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> .<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> I didn't push it for including it in X3D 4.0, as we already have a lot<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> of stuff in X3D 4. I hoped to talk about it for X3D 4.1. That being<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> said, if the consensus is that we should amend the existing X3D 4.0<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> and add it -- I am more than happy to make it :) As said, the prose<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> and the implementation in CGE is already working and tested. If Don<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> Brutzman agrees, I am ready to work on it, it is a relatively<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> straightforward addition to the spec (assuming that my extension on<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> <a href="https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> looks reasonable to you all).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> Regards,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> Michalis<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>> pt., 15 sty 2021 o 20:14 Spec Feedback <<a href="mailto:spec-comment@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">spec-comment@web3d.org</a>> napisa?(a):<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> -- Submitter indicates that this comment may be public: *Yes* --<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> Comment on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> 12.4.6 PhysicalMaterial<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/ballot/Part01/components/shape.html#PhysicalMaterial" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/ballot/Part01/components/shape.html#PhysicalMaterial</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> -----------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> Physical Materials include a "transparency" field, which combines with alpha<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> from the baseColorTexture to create a per-fragment alpha color, "used for<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> blending or alpha-testing". I was not able to see where or if the material<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> specifies its alpha mode. In glTF the possible alpha modes are "OPAQUE",<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> "BLEND", or "MASK" (alpha test). I'm assuming I've just missed it elsewhere<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> in the spec, but if not, that is critical information for the renderer in<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> many cases, and I do believe it should be included. Without this information<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> a renderer may need to check the texture for transparent pixels, or may run<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> into tricky sorting issues trying to do blending on materials that would have<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> been better served by alpha test. Thanks!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> -----------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> Submitted on Friday, 2021, January 15 - 11:14am<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> by (Don McCurdy )<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> IP: 73.70.160.63<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> See: <a href="https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/4448" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/4448</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> x3d mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> <a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>>>> <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> --<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Don McCurdy<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> donmccurdy.com | 573.480.4115<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> x3d mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">all the best, Don<br></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div dir="ltr">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<br></div><div dir="ltr">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics <a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 2<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 10:33:38 -0800<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Don Brutzman <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: [x3d-public] X3D minutes 22 JAN 2021: X3D4 advancement, 2<br></div><div dir="ltr"> Khronos issues, accessType adjustments, charter adjustment, adding<br></div><div dir="ltr"> tools<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7db3fe3c-ef56-c0bd-7c26-e53801916a0e@nps.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">7db3fe3c-ef56-c0bd-7c26-e53801916a0e@nps.edu</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Attendees: Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman. Additional participants welcome.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">X3D Weekly Meeting, 09-1000 Pacific time, Friday 22 JAN 2021.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This week we have a feedback and discussion session regarding multiple topics, looking ahead at 2021 efforts.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[0.1] Web3D Teleconference Information<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Please use the following link for all Web3D Consortium Meetings.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Join URL: <a href="https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" class="enhancr_card_2455538004">Join our Cloud HD Video Meeting</a><br></div><div><br></div><div id="ydp2def4584enhancr_card_2455538004" class="ydp2def4584yahoo-link-enhancr-card ydp2def4584yahoo-link-enhancr-not-allow-cover ydp2def4584ymail-preserve-class ydp2def4584ymail-preserve-style" style="max-width:400px;font-family:YahooSans, Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" data-url="https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09" data-type="YENHANCER" data-size="MEDIUM" contenteditable="false"><a href="https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09" style="text-decoration:none !important;color:#000 !important" class="ydp2def4584yahoo-enhancr-cardlink" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><table class="ydp2def4584card-wrapper ydp2def4584yahoo-ignore-table" style="max-width:400px" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td width="400"><table class="ydp2def4584card ydp2def4584yahoo-ignore-table" style="max-width:400px;border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(224, 228, 233);border-radius:2px" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td><table class="ydp2def4584card-info ydp2def4584yahoo-ignore-table" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-repeat: repeat; background-attachment: scroll; background-image: none; background-size: auto; position: relative; z-index: 2; width: 100%; max-width: 400px; border-radius: 0px 0px 2px 2px; border-top: 1px solid rgb(224, 228, 233);" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td style="background-color:#ffffff;padding:16px 0 16px 12px;vertical-align:top;border-radius:0 0 0 2px"></td><td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:12px 24px 16px 12px;width:99%;font-family:YahooSans, Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;border-radius:0 0 2px 0"><h2 class="ydp2def4584card-title" style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 19px; margin: 0px 0px 6px; font-family: YahooSans, Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); max-width: 314px;">Join our Cloud HD Video Meeting</h2><p class="ydp2def4584card-description" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; margin: 0px; color: rgb(151, 155, 167);">Zoom is the leader in modern enterprise video communications, with an easy, reliable cloud platform for video an...</p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></a></div></div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Confirmed that no Web3D Consortium member-only information is in these minutes.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Lots of good activity is occurring. Recent minutes and announcement:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[0.1] [x3d-public] X3D minutes 15 JAN 2021: X3D4 ballot, working group charters, spec planning 2021, Chisel<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014457.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014457.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[0.2] [x3d-public] X3D Specification Review minutes 14 JAN 2021: EnvironmentLight and Environment nodes, SAI 19775-2<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014455.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014455.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[0.3] [x3d-public] announce: X3D4 Sound Component and W3C Audio API<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014480.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014480.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">1. X3D4 advancement<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Member comment period is complete, thanks to everyone contributing.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Board of Directors review complete, we are now addressing final followup feedback.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Editors Mantis and specification source updates continue. This takes time. Scrutiny on mailing list and Mantis is appreciated.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[1.0] Mantis Issue Tracker<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Key items to finish include the following.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">a. Khronos feedback on alphaChannel and Image Based Lighting (IBL) aka X3D EnvironmentLight,<br></div><div dir="ltr">b. FontStyle/ScreenFontStyle fields accessType inputOutput,<br></div><div dir="ltr">c. Geometry 'solid' field as accessType inputOutput for animation capability,<br></div><div dir="ltr">d. Andreas Plesch feedback on X3D-HTML Guidelines.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Any editor changes to Working Draft WD3 at this point will be styled in neon green as "Editor Resolution" modifications. This document will remain online so that everyone has an exceptionally detailed version showing changes from X3D 3.3, with corresponding links to Mantis issue resolution, in turn with corresponding links to email threads and minutes. Thus changes and rationale X3D4 evolution remains fully transparent.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Once ready, the pristine copy corresponding to WD3 (without styling markup) will be checked into github as Committee Draft (CD).<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[1.1] X3D4 Overview<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d4" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3d4</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[1.2] X3D4 Public Working Draft Specification<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3dv4-public-working-draft" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3dv4-public-working-draft</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[1.3] X3Dv4 Working Draft (WD3) Specification (with markup)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[1.4] X3Dv4 Working Draft (WD3) Specification (pristine)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/ballot" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/ballot</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[1.5] GitHub Web3DConsortium X3D 4.0<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19775/ISO-IEC19775-1/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19775/ISO-IEC19775-1/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.0</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">2. Khronos feedback comments: path forward<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">a. Immediate response to change X3D4 specification<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Helpful deficiency feedback during ballot period regarding alphaChannel for Appearance.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[2.1] Specify alpha channel treatment (field alphaChannel for Appearance)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://castle-engine.io/x3d_implementation_shape_extensions.php#section_ext_alpha_channel</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Please see email report by Don McCurdy and response by Michalis Kamburelis.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[2.2] [x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0; add Appearance alpha channel for consistency with glTF<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014569.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014569.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Initial placeholder has been added to github specification and Michalis will continue with prose next week. If one more week is needed to finish, we will allow that.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Needed clarification: default value "AUTO" means that other requirements in the specification are handled without change.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This is implemented (or nearly done) in Castle Game Engine. How about assessment by other browsers: X_ITE, X3DOM, FreeWrl?<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Tracking as<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[2.3] Mantis 1340, add Appearance alpha channel for consistency with glTF<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1340" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1340</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">b. Deferred response to change X3D4 specification: EnvironmentLight<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[2.4] KhronosGroup/glTF/extensions/2.0/Vendor/EXT_lights_image_based<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Vendor/EXT_lights_image_based" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Vendor/EXT_lights_image_based</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[2.5] Michalis Kamburelis: Image Based Lighting (EnvironmentLight node)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Image-Based-Lighting-" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Image-Based-Lighting-</a>(EnvironmentLight-node)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[2.6] Mantis 1336: EnvironmentLight - Khronos glTF extension for image based lighting<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1336" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1336</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Michalis has reported that this seems feasible and not difficult, but he will not have it ready until later in the spring.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It is a stated goal of X3D4 to integrate glTF functionality... It is Khronos feedback that we lack this capability... The dialog has been very helpful and improved our understanding both technically and also to recognize that many Khronos implementers have achieved this capability (i.e. not just the two listed on the gltf extension).<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Suggested path forward<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">- Submit X3D4 CD to ISO, informally noting that it lacks EnvironmentLight<br></div><div dir="ltr">- Submit a comment to ISO when that balloting occurs, noting omission and suggested resolution<br></div><div dir="ltr">- Upon completion of ISO review/ballot, if accepted, integrate into the next X3D4 CD (or next level, CD2 or Draft International Specification).<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Worth noting here is that<br></div><div dir="ltr">- this is approved procedure within ISO rules which Web3D has followed in the past<br></div><div dir="ltr">- Interestingly Khronos has also become a member of ISO SC 24 and is allowed to post comments as well.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">So for this feature, we do not expect to have to wait until a future X3D 4.1. Feedback from other implementers welcome.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">c. Future work<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It is important for everyone to recognize the essential value of Web3D Consortium's steady, steadfast innovation of X3D capabilities.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It is further worth noting that the "X" in X3D stands for Extensible, so implementations and authors are always welcome to try new innovations.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">We expect that X3D Working Group will continue to observe and execute all policies and procedures of both Web3D Consortium and ISO, as we continue forward.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Thus, as they occur and as milestones permit, we can all expect that changes in 2021 will<br></div><div dir="ltr">- be accepted as a Web3D comment to ISO regarding the X3D4.0 draft specification,<br></div><div dir="ltr">- be deferred as a future improvement in a next-year Web3D X3D 4.1 design,<br></div><div dir="ltr">- be rejected as not relevant or needing further work,<br></div><div dir="ltr">- or welcome as a custom extension, perhaps for continuing experimentation.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Everyone should have every confidence that steady progress can continue to occur, once again thanks to Web3D Consortium's execution of its mission.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[2.7] Web3D Standards Adoption Process<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">3. style field for Text and FontStyle nodes<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[3.0] Mantis 1335: FontStyle/ScreenFontStyle 'style' field naming collisions with CSS style<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Immediate change: FontStyle style field have inputOutput? Improves animation capabilities, no longer any performance inhibitions against this.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Other FontStyle fields inputOutput? Same rationale holds.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">State in spec that CSS changes for font can optionally be applied in parent Text node style attribute, while FontStyle/ScreenFontStyle style field performs as specified.<br></div><div dir="ltr">- prose change in node definitions<br></div><div dir="ltr">- prose change Annex L X3D-HTML Guidelines<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This steady refinement has reached a really elegant solution for harmonizing X3D and HTML5 handling of text. This will have future benefit for accessibility etc. without limiting current implementations of X3D-native use.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">TODO: Dick and Don resolve prose, change all fields to accessType inputOutput.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">4. IndexedFaceSet (IFS) accessType inputOutput<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The 'solid' field controls single-sided or double-sided rendering of geometry. Can we make it accessType inputOutput?<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[4.0] X3D4 Architecture, Shape Component, 12.2.3 Two-sided materials<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/Part01/components/shape.html#TwoSidedMaterials" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD3/Part01/components/shape.html#TwoSidedMaterials</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This would be an excellent animation capability to include. Given approaches used in current-day rendering capabilities, no performance problems are expected.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This feature has no changes in X3D model content. Legacy browsers can implement the flexibility of this feature when ready, without blocking essential rendering capabilities.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Absent objections, we will apply this change.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[4.1] Mantis 1341: change 'solid' field (single-sided or double-sided rendering) to accessType inputOutput<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1341" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1341</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">5. HTML X3D Guidelines feedback: still pending<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Thanks to Andreas Plesch for great emails, we will consider his points next week.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> [5.1] [x3d-public] L.3.1 Re: Annex L HTML authoring guidelines for X3D4; naming Script versus X3DScript<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-December/014276.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-December/014276.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> [5.2] <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-December/014328.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-December/014328.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> [5.3] <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-December/014327.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-December/014327.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> [5.4] <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014345.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014345.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> [5.5] <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014352.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2021-January/014352.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Continued dialog on email list welcome. We will review next week, all comments and insight are welcome.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Any feedback out there?<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">6. Documenting changes in X3D4<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">We discussed "telling the story" for X3D4. We have<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">a. summary pages<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">b. detailed markup of every specific changes<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">c. Mantis list of issues and resolutions<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">d. Addition of open-source X3D4 example scenes into Web3D version control remains welcome.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">We discussed whether a new document might help with X3D4 Adoption. Will discuss next week.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">7. Tool support<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">a. Champions needed for MeshLab and Blender<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">b. New initiative by Jordi Cardona for Notepad++, Don will work with him to achieve X3DUOM automation of this capability.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">c. Don will work with Jordi (or whoever is interested) to add similar color-coding to UltraEdit and vim.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">d. Surge by John Carlson continues to find edge-case improvement in examples and demonstrate capability. Hard to keep up with so many messages! If possible, consolidation of comments can help.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">e. Don will reach back to Altova, ensuring their next build of XMLSpy tool suite.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">f. Anyone want to work on Xj3D? NPS is working on upgrading the new release of JOGL.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">g. Chisel now available for major review/improvement, who wants to help?<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">h. Nicholas has started a thread on several tools. (Can this be moved to public list?)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">i. Am happy to keep adding/updating entries on the X3D Resources page.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[7.0] X3D Resources<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This is where our Friday 22 JAN 2021 meeting finished. Next are followups and resolutions of "old business" from last week's meeting.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">8. Charter review, continued from last week:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> 2. X3D Working Group Charter and Goals<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> All X3D working groups are performing annual review of charter. Please see recent message by Anita Havele, Web3D Consortium Executive Director.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> [2.0] Web3D Consortium Working Groups<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/working-groups" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/working-groups</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> "The Extensible 3D (X3D) Working Group coordinates all technical development efforts. Working groups are essentially driven by the efforts of participants. They focus on issues and technologies that produce improvements to our open standards, always achieving results that are royalty free for any purpose. All efforts are geared towards improving a coordinated set of steadily evolving ISO standards including X3D Version 4."<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> [2.1] X3D Graphics Working Group<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> "The X3D Graphics Working Group addresses all X3D specification issues and coordinates the technical development of future improvements."<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Most wording looks just fine.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">no changes<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Activities<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> a. Top priority is integrating X3D into HTML/DOM web pages for X3D version 4.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> insert "and achieving other improvements such as advanced glTF rendering and spatial audio"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">applied change, omitted "Top priority" since that is mostly achieved and many priorities are currently active.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> b. Develop the specifications and manage the Web3D/ISO processes for the X3D International Standards.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> yes. Updating each specification to X3D4 is our primary task.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">no change<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> c. The Working Group meets every week to discuss, develop, and approve the current topics. These include reviewing new technologies such as Mixed Augmented Reality (MAR), integration of submitted technologies, and interfacing with external organizations for X3D.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> omit MAR; further work is expected in MAR/XR but not worth calling out specifically at this stage.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">applied change<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> d. Continue work to execute Call for Contributions for Compressed Binary Encoding for X3D.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Can omit; correlating multiple compression techniques as a workflow pipeline as part of DPS Working Group.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Revised to read "Apply various techniques to achieve goals listed in _Call for Contributions for Compressed Binary Encoding for X3D._"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Updated url to: <a href="https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d/compressed-binary/x3d-compressed-binary-encoding-call-contributions" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d/compressed-binary/x3d-compressed-binary-encoding-call-contributions</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> We will update the History section following Board deliberations next week.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Add:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> (new) d. Encourage tool updates and content validation for all forms of X3D4<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Inserted under Activities.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> [2.2] X3D Working Group Charter<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d/charter" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d/charter</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Suggested change "two" to "two or more" in<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> * "The leadership of the Working Group consists of two co-chairs."<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Next week we will apply these changes, pending any comments or feedback.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Done.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Suggested review for February: following annual charter review and updates, next review:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> [2.3] Web3D Working Group Practices<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/working-group/practices" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/working-group/practices</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This is working. Am not seeing any needed potential improvements relative to this group.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Next week we will review:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> * Identify potential goals for X3D WG for 2021.These goals/projects will be prioritized and progress tracked during the year.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> * Accomplishments to be summarized at the end of 2021.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> * Quarterly reports to be sent to the Web3D Board: April 1, 2021, July 1, 2021, Oct 1, 2021 and Dec 31, 2021!<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Convergence with other 3D standards:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> - Web3D SDO Liaison, which SDOs and their working groups are relevant to our working groups.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> - How to engage: identify a Web3D liaison lead and periodic outreach to the 3D community.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> a. Khronos<br></div><div dir="ltr">> b. IEEE3DBP<br></div><div dir="ltr">> c. DICOM<br></div><div dir="ltr">> d. ISO<br></div><div dir="ltr">> e. W3C<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I think the X3D working group and community together do a pretty good job at this, and our specification editing plans for 2021 will drive our work forward as we continue to perfect + deploy X3D4.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Also following up from last week:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> 3. Spec Editors Planning 2021<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Continuing scrutiny from last week, renumbered references:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> [3.1] X3D Graphics Standards Relationships<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSpecificationRelationships.png" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSpecificationRelationships.png</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> a. Primary next step: align ISO/IEC 19775-2 Scene Access Interface (SAI) with 19775-1 X3D4 Architecture.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> The SAI is the generic interface implemented by all of the corresponding programming languages.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Mostly OK already. Will check for completeness, consistency, correctness.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Editor review has commenced.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> [3.2] X3D Abstract : Scene Access Interface (SAI) version 3.3<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-2/V3.3/index.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-2/V3.3/index.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Call for comment: what other SAI methods might be needed?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> - For example: exposure to view matrix, transformation matrix, utility methods in X3DOM/X_ITE, etc.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> More feedback requested. This will be an ongoing issue as we review all of the programming-language bindings.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> We will update 19775-2 SAI first, and keep it as a Web3D recommended practice to allow review/revision of all other language bindings to ensure everything gets updated in a synchronized way.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Already noted: our legacy focus has (obviously) been on client side, it is interesting to note that server side (and cloud computing) can be considered from a compatibility perspective. Can we run SAI headless, hooked up to other things? This is not foreseen as any kind of significant design change, rather simply alignment of what we have already.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Confirmed<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Ongoing.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> b. Open issue: whether to include X3DUOM as an informative reference. More discussion to follow.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> [3.3] X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3DUOM.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3DUOM.html</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Am thinking that this might best go in [3.2] X3D Abstract : Scene Access Interface (SAI) itself. Might fit as an informative annex.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Reactions welcome. Dick and I will look at this further.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Best location so far: informative Annex B. Still under discussion, feedback welcome. Now tracking this issue as<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[8.1] Mantis 1342: add X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM) to specification<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1342" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1342</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> c. Discussion of file encodings. Straightforward.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> The X3D Ontology (i.e. Turtle/RDF) likely is another file encoding... will discuss further.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> d. Discussion of programming-language APIs.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> - 19775-3/4/5 for C, C++, C# binding. Document should be straightforward but getting additional champions(s) for implementations is a shared need. Alignment with major existing APIs (e.g. Unity3D) is especially valuable.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> - 19775-6 noted maturity of implementation and multiple uses already, should be straightforward.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Something to think about: sorting numerically in priority order ECMAScript, Java (as is), then python, C#, C++, C<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Absent objections, am ready to renumber the proposed programming-language bindings in order of specification maturity.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Suggested sorted list will be provided next week.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Summary:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">19776-1 XML<br></div><div dir="ltr">19776-2 ClassicVRML<br></div><div dir="ltr">19776-3 Compressed Binary Encoding<br></div><div dir="ltr">19776-4 Efficient Binary Encoding (new)<br></div><div dir="ltr">19776-5 JSON Encoding (new)<br></div><div dir="ltr">19776-6 Turtle/RDF/OWL Encoding (new)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">19777-1 ECMAScript<br></div><div dir="ltr">19777-2 Java<br></div><div dir="ltr">19777-3 Python (new)<br></div><div dir="ltr">19777-4 C# (new)<br></div><div dir="ltr">19777-5 C++ (new)<br></div><div dir="ltr">19777-6 C (needed?)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Absent any further suggestions, will update our diagram.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[8.2] X3D Graphics Standards Relationships<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSpecificationRelationships.png" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSpecificationRelationships.png</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">---<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">99. Join!<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Getting better every single week.There has been no better time to be a Web3D Consortium Member, much value continues to steadily emerge.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">[99.0] Join the Web3D Consortium<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="https://www.web3d.org/join" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/join</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Hoping everyone is personally "staying safe" as we progress into a new year.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Have fun with X3D! 8)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">all the best, Don<br></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div dir="ltr">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<br></div><div dir="ltr">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics <a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">x3d-public mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">End of x3d-public Digest, Vol 142, Issue 117<br></div><div dir="ltr">********************************************<br></div></div>
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