<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Voila!</p>
<p>$ netstat -gn|grep tun0<br>
tun0 1 224.0.0.1<br>
tun0 1 ff02::1<br>
tun0 1 ff01::1</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Please schedule a time and add me to the participants list so we
can test the multicast (2 receivers, one sender).</p>
<p>I will test to see if I can run 2 receivers on one host,with
224.0.0.1</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 6:27 PM, John Carlson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f466387d-e251-d930-e2d4-c6591da3662c@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>netstat -g looks useful for determining multicast addresses.</p>
<p>John</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 6:11 PM, John Carlson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:745257ef-2767-4095-39aa-244f2d5e3494@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>I figured out how to translate into English!</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 6:08 PM, John Carlson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8f2d8846-4970-2559-6353-5a3552976761@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>Ah, no VPN required!</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>On 1/25/21 5:33 PM, John Carlson wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3a409cf5-5203-a5d2-f362-296c0589bda3@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>Okay, so I have to schedule on a calender when to use
VPN, but first I have to get on VPN</p>
<p>I got to the calendar. Is there some way to translate to
English?</p>
<p>This is the point where you steal my files? It always
seems to happen with VPN.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 5:08 PM, Christoph
Valentin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:trinity-10900d88-0f4d-4369-8ef2-973affe0e99d-1611616085330@3c-app-gmx-bap08">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Hi John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You can access the VPN's calendar directly at the
experimental owncloud web interface at my vServer:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(owncloud is a framework mainly for file sharing,
but also has calendar and contacts via WebDav)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>URL <a href="http://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud</a></div>
<div>
<div>user name vpncal</div>
<div>password X3D4</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All the best</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;
padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid
#C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
24. Januar 2021 um 15:35 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for
Use by Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at a
time)</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;">
<div>John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please <span style="font-size: 14.0px;"><strong>expect
some maintenance work (short
interruptions) next week Saturday (30th
January).</strong></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have now <span style="font-size:
14.0px;"><strong>defined an online
calendar for the VPN</strong></span>, to
avoid flooding the mailing list.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The calendar can be <span
style="font-size: 14.0px;"><strong>easily
integrated with the calendar on your
Android phone</strong></span> (see the
green entry below!!!).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Probably it is possible to integrate it
with any smartphone (it uses the WebDav
standard), but I haven't tried.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Installation instructions:</div>
<div>1) Install DAVx5 on your Android
smartphone (available at F-Droid)</div>
<div>2) Create new DAVx5 account <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at"
moz-do-not-send="true">"vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at"</a></div>
<div> - URL: <a
href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/</a></div>
<div> - user: vpncal</div>
<div> - pw: X3D4</div>
<div>3) Enable and trigger the synchronization
of WebCal</div>
<div>4) Go to "Calendar" App: make sure the
"personal" calendar is activated for display</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The installation instructions will be
available at <a
href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental</a>
soon.</div>
<div><img
src="cid:part8.CF41ACFA.E96B8E18@gmail.com"
class="" width="275" height="488">
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>If you have set the synchronization
correctly, then it should be possible
for you to make calendar entries, too
(e.g. test sessions, where you need more
than 2 connections, or some specific
multicast address).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px
10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px
10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag,
23. Januar 2021 um 14:11 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "X3D Graphics public
mailing list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Tiny VPN
for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10
connections at a time)</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Hi John, Gina Lauren, Jordi,
and all interested in multiuser</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Being very curious to get to
know, whether the "server-less
mode" could really work, I was
thinking about what could I
contribute?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have got this tiny vServer at
hoststar.at (hosted at some cloud
in Germany), where I could
implement a VPN for "server-less
experiments".</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Voilá</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So, if you have a Windows 10
client, then what you can do:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1) Install OpenVPN Connect
software (community edition) - <a
href="https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/</a><br>
<br>
2) Unzip the config.zip from
attachment into C:\Program
Files\OpenVPN\config</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3) Start OpenVPN Client</div>
<div> </div>
<div>4) Connect</div>
<div> </div>
<div>5) Now your client is a
multihomed host with an additional
network interface at
172.27.224.0/19</div>
<div> </div>
<div>6) The network 172.27.224.0/19
is an island. Only people, who
receive this e-mail, can connect.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What is missing:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>a) a proof that multicast
addresses work on the VPN</div>
<div>b) an online calendar to
coordinate the multicast sessions
at the VPN-> I will provide
this on request.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021
um 01:34 Uhr<br>
Von: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
An: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
Hi John,<br>
<br>
Currently having two issues:<br>
<br>
1) can test the VPN only with two
Windows clients -> you have to
create your own experience with
the Linux client<br>
2) still have to make the VPN
permanent -> now the VPN has to
be restarted manually after server
restart.<br>
<br>
Pls. expect final answer by
Saturday evening, CET.<br>
<br>
My plan:<br>
<br>
I will publish (at a hidden
place):<br>
<br>
a) example configuration from
Windows OpenVPN Connect client<br>
b) ca-yeti.crt self-signed root
certificate, which you have to
trust<br>
c) x3d-public.key private key for
the Web3D community (not really
private)<br>
d) x3d-public.crt certificate for
the Web3D community (signed by
yeti -> my server will let you
in)<br>
e) ta.key additional symmetric key
(must be identical on client and
server)<br>
<br>
Physical restriction: max. 10
connections at the same time,
dynamic IP addresses from a
private IPv4 range
(172.27.224.0/19).<br>
<br>
The VPN will be an island - the
server will not route that subnet,
unless from one client to the
others (hopefully including
multicast packets - not yet
tested). <br>
<br>
KR<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Januar 2021
um 07:38 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
I am now prepared to have a
"client" of your UDP DIS server at
hoststar.at. I need things like
address and port, per X3D PDU
nodes.<br>
<br>
If there is ssh information for
reaching your server network, let
me know. This is my preferred
method. I do not believe I need
special permission except for
perhaps a new user account.<br>
<br>
I've never really used a VPN, and
will probably need instructions.
My experience with VPN varies "not
very useful" and "OMG, my friends
are going to steal my files."<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 1/10/21 11:28 PM, Christoph
Valentin wrote:<br>
If everything works fine (and if
I've understood correctly), then
you can do tests with multicast IP
transport, although you are
geographically separated.<br>
<br>
That's what I would like to try
basically<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem
Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
gesendet.<br>
Am 11.01.21, 05:11 schrieb John
Carlson <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com</a>]:<br>
My friends have asked me to set up
a VPN on my machine in the past.
I don't really see the value of a
VPN. <br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:03 PM
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
What I am going to try is to setup
a VPN with OpenVPN and my vServer
at hoststar.at[<a
href="http://hoststar.at"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://hoststar.at</a>],
so we can do a test session with
DIS (hopefully).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar 2021
um 23:13 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
What I was going to do is try to
get DIS from GitHub and DIS from
X_ITE to talk to each other.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:08 PM
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
ok<br>
<br>
let me repeat your proposal:<br>
<br>
>>>>> Of the
published work available in that
regard, we have BS Collaborate,
DIS, and the Draft X3D
Specification for NetworkSensor. I
think the first step would be to
take these, see what they have in
common, and go from there for
deeper analyses.<br>
<br>
I think everybody agrees.<br>
<br>
So what would be the very first
step (before the first step)?
Assign responsibilities? Create a
Wiki? Ask for official decision?
Just do it? Who? What? When?
Create an official backlog? Use
the S&P-ARK?<br>
<br>
kind regards<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem
Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 07:40 schrieb
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>:<br>
<br>
Not much,<br>
<br>
1) It's another use case, which
has proven it's usefulness during
SrrTrains v0.01:<br>
- Customized Client Side
Calculations<br>
( sent to x3d-public in
January 2014: <a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>][<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>]]
)<br>
<br>
2) And an idea (which is not yet
settled).<br>
- idea is to have two levels
of identification:<br>
identify the sensor by
"streamName" + "networkSensorId"<br>
(BS Collaborate:
only "streamName"<br>
Octaga: only
"networkSensorId")<br>
<br>
1) the stream =
the model = the real life
entity e.g. "car"<br>
2) the sensor
nodes themselves
e.g.
"steering", "motor", "doors"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Januar 2021
um 03:59 Uhr<br>
Von: "GL" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a><br>
An: "'X3D Graphics public mailing
list'" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
I am not sure what results you are
referring to. Did I miss
something?<br>
<br>
<br>
From: x3d-public [<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>]]
On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin<br>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 9:21
PM<br>
To: 'X3D Graphics public mailing
list'<br>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Re: X3D
and VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
<br>
so basically you want to ignore my
results?<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem
Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 01:07 schrieb GL <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a>:<br>
Christoph,<br>
<br>
Thank you for the clarifications
and your general dedication. I
believe that little
misunderstandings should be
addressed before they snowball
into bigger misconceptions.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> If we specify a general
Network Sensor API, then content
can run<br>
> with any X3D Player that
supports the Network Sensor API.<br>
<br>
If you read again my last
paragraph, I try to make a
distinction between a multiuser
client and a X3D player. In other
words, the player is not
necessarily the client. It appears
to be a common misconception that
the X3D player must also be the MU
client, while in truth it really
doesn't have to. For the reasons
previously stated, I tend to
prefer that the player does not in
fact act as the client.<br>
<br>
<br>
> However, if I use the
X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST
use the X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the protocol
is proprietary.<br>
<br>
<br>
That is precisely why I am here. I
do NOT want the application
protocol to be proprietary. And
the fact that we still don't have
a standard keeps me from moving
forward, because any development
efforts I make may someday have to
be rewritten once we do have a
standard. IOW, I am not a big fan
of reworking systems. I'd rather
use open standards as early in the
process as possible to facilitate
interoperability later.<br>
<br>
<br>
> If the protocol was
specified, then I could use ANY<br>
> server with the X3Daemon
Client.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ideally, systems could
interoperate, though there are
other factors to consider. For
example avatars must login to
authenticate their identity and
assets, consisting of information
that may or may not be available
to a third party server. But yes,
you get the general idea.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> It is not sufficient to
specify the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of
the NetworkSensor node. ...,<br>
> but I had the feeling that
you want to<br>
> omit the specification of the
protocol.<br>
<br>
<br>
Read again, I was referring
specifically to network protocols.
Still, at this early stage, I feel
it may be a little premature to
get too involved with an
application protocol, that until
we get a better grasp of what the
requirements will be. For this
reason, I am of the opinion that
fields and events should be
specified first. Just so that we
have something to build upon.<br>
<br>
Of the published work available in
that regard, we have BS
Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft
X3D Specification for
NetworkSensor. I think the first
step would be to take these, see
what they have in common, and go
from there for deeper analyses.<br>
<br>
Once we have that settled, IMO,
only then should we turn to
discuss an application layer
protocol and its ramifications. GL<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: x3d-public [<a
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href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
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On Behalf Of<br>
> Christoph Valentin<br>
> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021
5:09 PM<br>
> To: X3D Graphics public
mailing list<br>
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D
and VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
><br>
> Dear Gina Lauren<br>
><br>
> Please find some feed back
*inline*.<br>
><br>
> Generally, please do not
judge too hard, I'm not a native
speaker and still<br>
> some of my wordings do not
fit to the real intention.<br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
> Christoph<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >You want to lock in your
users. That's not the spirit of
open source.<br>
><br>
> For once I was beginning to
open up about the inner workings
of a multiuser<br>
> system, but surprisingly, you
apparently don't want to hear
about it. It is<br>
> difficult to talk about open
standards for a NSN if we can't
refer to<br>
> actual implementations. It's
not like there are a lot of them
around..<br>
> [CV]: I should not have
written this. However, I was a
little bit<br>
> impatient, because I have
been preaching for years and years
that the<br>
> protocol itself must be
specified. It is not sufficient to
specify the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of
the NetworkSensor node. Maybe I
did not read<br>
> your words sufficiently
thoroughly, but I had the feeling
that you want to<br>
> omit the specification of the
protocol.<br>
><br>
> Also, who said anything about
open source being a requirement? I
was<br>
> actually volunteering closed
source information for the benefit
of an open<br>
> standard. If you can't see
that I was actually "giving"
something to the<br>
> community.. then perhaps I am
wasting my time???<br>
> [CV]: Here I used "open
source" and meant "open
protocols", sorry, my<br>
> mistake. And, yes, I also
"gave" a lot. Using too much time
for my hobbies,<br>
> was one major reason, why my
wife left us in 2015 (afterwards
the SrrTrains<br>
> v0.01 project fell into
hibernation mode due to lack of
resources).<br>
><br>
> Finally, if you would like to
discuss an application layer
protocol, maybe<br>
> look into work that has been
done in the past referred to as
vrtp and x3dp.<br>
> Not much, but a starting
point. So far I have only heard
vague comments<br>
> about SCTP, UDP, etc. (see
below)<br>
> [CV]: I am sure that many
people have contributed many parts
of the puzzle.<br>
> Now we need somebody, who
fits all together (that's not me,
is it?)<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > [CV]: I never suggested
to specifiy the transport protocol
(http, rtp,<br>
> > sctp, tcp, msrp, sip,
xmpp, ........).<br>
><br>
> hhhmmm.. I'm confused, what
is this about???<br>
> [CV]: Let's assume, we
specify an "Application Layer
Protocol" (let's call<br>
> it ALP in the sense of a
"working title"). Probably the ALP
will consist of<br>
> the definition of a few PDUs
(e.g. in XML, JSON, YAML or
similar syntax).<br>
> Now we have to define, how
the PDUs have to be transmitted
over the<br>
> network. Will they be sent as
payload in http messages (in the
body)? Will<br>
> they be sent as payload in
SIP messages (in the body)? Will
they be sent<br>
> directly over tcp
connections?<br>
> To get historically: at the
beginning of the IETF they had a
great<br>
> movement. You could get
T-Shirts with the meme "IP over
everything". IP<br>
> should connect any network
with any network, building the
Inter-network. So<br>
> they had to write one RFC for
each L2 protocol in order to
specify, how IP<br>
> has to be transported over
any L2 link/network.<br>
> I am dreaming of an "ALP over
everything" movement.<br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: SCTP and UDP are
members of the TCP/IP protocol
family. UDP is as<br>
> >old as TCP, just simpler.
SCTP is younger. It tries to merge
advantages<br>
> >of both TCP and UDP and
was originally invented to
transport SS7 protocols<br>
> >(SIGTRAN). SCTP supports
64k streams per association, what
perfectly fits<br>
> >to our needs, imho<br>
><br>
> Why are you trying to lecture
me about network protocols? And
what is it<br>
> exactly that you are saying
or not saying, I find rather
perplexing and<br>
> fail to see the relevancy.
Let's keep going...<br>
> [CV]: I thought you wrote
"SCTP is not TCP/IP". I want to
stress that SCTP<br>
> actually IS TCP/IP<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: Actually I
suggested to specifiy ONE AND ONLY
ONE application layer<br>
> protocol,<br>
><br>
> No-one is questioning this as
far as I know. Isn't that
precisely what we<br>
> are trying to do?<br>
> Why are you augmenting this
in my comments?<br>
><br>
> [CV]: (see above) Maybe I did
not read your words sufficiently
thoroughly,<br>
> but I had the feeling that
you want to omit the specification
of the<br>
> protocol.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: The API (i.e
Network Sensor) must be specified
to run ONE content<br>
> with ANY X3D Player.<br>
><br>
> Let's be careful here. The
X3D player does not necessarily
need to have<br>
> agency over the application
protocol. For example the X3Daemon
client<br>
> (sorry to bring it up) is
entirely separate from the player
other than for<br>
> interpreting ECMAScripts and
rendering the results to screen.
IOW, the<br>
> X3Daemon client can
theoretically run in any X3D
player, regardless of<br>
> internal multiuser coding, as
long as ECMAScript (JavaScript) is
supported.<br>
> This makes it very easy for
authors to script avatar and
object behaviors,<br>
> since it provides direct
access to X3D nodes. It is also a
reason why we<br>
> need to define a
NetworkSensor node as part of the
X3D standard.<br>
> [CV]: That's exactly what I
am saying: you specified your
X3Daemon client<br>
> API, so a content that uses
that API, can theoretically run
with ANY X3D<br>
> Player (that the X3Daemon
client supports). If we specify a
general Network<br>
> Sensor API, then content can
run with any X3D Player that
supports the<br>
> Network Sensor API.<br>
> However, if I use the
X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST
use the X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the protocol
is proprietary. If the protocol
was specified,<br>
> then I could use ANY server
with the X3Daemon Client. It's
similar with BS<br>
> Contact and BS Collaborate.<br>
> Most customers are very
sensitive about getting locked in.
No matter if<br>
> open source or closed source.
We (my employer) made this
experience with<br>
> railway operators, too.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
> GL<br>
><br>
>
________________________________________________________<br>
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