<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>I did not have luck running 2 receivers on the same machine.
Perhaps I am missing something?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 6:32 PM, John Carlson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:986c6e46-6da2-fdb7-a9cb-a5d7ecb962fd@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Voila!</p>
<p>$ netstat -gn|grep tun0<br>
tun0 1 224.0.0.1<br>
tun0 1 ff02::1<br>
tun0 1 ff01::1</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Please schedule a time and add me to the participants list so
we can test the multicast (2 receivers, one sender).</p>
<p>I will test to see if I can run 2 receivers on one host,with
224.0.0.1</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 6:27 PM, John Carlson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f466387d-e251-d930-e2d4-c6591da3662c@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>netstat -g looks useful for determining multicast addresses.</p>
<p>John</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 6:11 PM, John Carlson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:745257ef-2767-4095-39aa-244f2d5e3494@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>I figured out how to translate into English!</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 6:08 PM, John Carlson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8f2d8846-4970-2559-6353-5a3552976761@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>Ah, no VPN required!</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>On 1/25/21 5:33 PM, John Carlson wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3a409cf5-5203-a5d2-f362-296c0589bda3@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>Okay, so I have to schedule on a calender when to use
VPN, but first I have to get on VPN</p>
<p>I got to the calendar. Is there some way to translate
to English?</p>
<p>This is the point where you steal my files? It always
seems to happen with VPN.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 5:08 PM, Christoph
Valentin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:trinity-10900d88-0f4d-4369-8ef2-973affe0e99d-1611616085330@3c-app-gmx-bap08">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Hi John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You can access the VPN's calendar directly at the
experimental owncloud web interface at my vServer:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(owncloud is a framework mainly for file sharing,
but also has calendar and contacts via WebDav)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>URL <a href="http://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud</a></div>
<div>
<div>user name vpncal</div>
<div>password X3D4</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All the best</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;
padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid
#C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
24. Januar 2021 um 15:35 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for
Use by Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at
a time)</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;">
<div>John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please <span style="font-size:
14.0px;"><strong>expect some maintenance
work (short interruptions) next week
Saturday (30th January).</strong></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have now <span style="font-size:
14.0px;"><strong>defined an online
calendar for the VPN</strong></span>,
to avoid flooding the mailing list.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The calendar can be <span
style="font-size: 14.0px;"><strong>easily
integrated with the calendar on your
Android phone</strong></span> (see the
green entry below!!!).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Probably it is possible to integrate it
with any smartphone (it uses the WebDav
standard), but I haven't tried.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Installation instructions:</div>
<div>1) Install DAVx5 on your Android
smartphone (available at F-Droid)</div>
<div>2) Create new DAVx5 account <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at"
moz-do-not-send="true">"vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at"</a></div>
<div> - URL: <a
href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/</a></div>
<div> - user: vpncal</div>
<div> - pw: X3D4</div>
<div>3) Enable and trigger the
synchronization of WebCal</div>
<div>4) Go to "Calendar" App: make sure the
"personal" calendar is activated for
display</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The installation instructions will be
available at <a
href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental</a>
soon.</div>
<div><img
src="cid:part8.D1EA6F1E.118DDB99@gmail.com"
class="" width="275" height="488">
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>If you have set the synchronization
correctly, then it should be possible
for you to make calendar entries, too
(e.g. test sessions, where you need
more than 2 connections, or some
specific multicast address).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px
10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px
10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag,
23. Januar 2021 um 14:11 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "X3D Graphics public
mailing list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Tiny
VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max.
10 connections at a time)</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Hi John, Gina Lauren, Jordi,
and all interested in multiuser</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Being very curious to get to
know, whether the "server-less
mode" could really work, I was
thinking about what could I
contribute?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have got this tiny vServer
at hoststar.at (hosted at some
cloud in Germany), where I could
implement a VPN for "server-less
experiments".</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Voilá</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So, if you have a Windows 10
client, then what you can do:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1) Install OpenVPN Connect
software (community edition) - <a
href="https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/</a><br>
<br>
2) Unzip the config.zip from
attachment into C:\Program
Files\OpenVPN\config</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3) Start OpenVPN Client</div>
<div> </div>
<div>4) Connect</div>
<div> </div>
<div>5) Now your client is a
multihomed host with an
additional network interface at
172.27.224.0/19</div>
<div> </div>
<div>6) The network
172.27.224.0/19 is an island.
Only people, who receive this
e-mail, can connect.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What is missing:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>a) a proof that multicast
addresses work on the VPN</div>
<div>b) an online calendar to
coordinate the multicast
sessions at the VPN-> I will
provide this on request.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar
2021 um 01:34 Uhr<br>
Von: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
An: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D
and VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
Hi John,<br>
<br>
Currently having two issues:<br>
<br>
1) can test the VPN only with
two Windows clients -> you
have to create your own
experience with the Linux client<br>
2) still have to make the VPN
permanent -> now the VPN has
to be restarted manually after
server restart.<br>
<br>
Pls. expect final answer by
Saturday evening, CET.<br>
<br>
My plan:<br>
<br>
I will publish (at a hidden
place):<br>
<br>
a) example configuration from
Windows OpenVPN Connect client<br>
b) ca-yeti.crt self-signed root
certificate, which you have to
trust<br>
c) x3d-public.key private key
for the Web3D community (not
really private)<br>
d) x3d-public.crt certificate
for the Web3D community (signed
by yeti -> my server will let
you in)<br>
e) ta.key additional symmetric
key (must be identical on client
and server)<br>
<br>
Physical restriction: max. 10
connections at the same time,
dynamic IP addresses from a
private IPv4 range
(172.27.224.0/19).<br>
<br>
The VPN will be an island - the
server will not route that
subnet, unless from one client
to the others (hopefully
including multicast packets -
not yet tested). <br>
<br>
KR<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Januar
2021 um 07:38 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D
and VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
I am now prepared to have a
"client" of your UDP DIS server
at hoststar.at. I need things
like address and port, per X3D
PDU nodes.<br>
<br>
If there is ssh information for
reaching your server network,
let me know. This is my
preferred method. I do not
believe I need special
permission except for perhaps a
new user account.<br>
<br>
I've never really used a VPN,
and will probably need
instructions. My experience
with VPN varies "not very
useful" and "OMG, my friends are
going to steal my files."<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 1/10/21 11:28 PM, Christoph
Valentin wrote:<br>
If everything works fine (and if
I've understood correctly), then
you can do tests with multicast
IP transport, although you are
geographically separated.<br>
<br>
That's what I would like to try
basically<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem
Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX
Mail gesendet.<br>
Am 11.01.21, 05:11 schrieb John
Carlson <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com</a>]:<br>
My friends have asked me to set
up a VPN on my machine in the
past. I don't really see the
value of a VPN. <br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:03 PM
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
What I am going to try is to
setup a VPN with OpenVPN and my
vServer at hoststar.at[<a
href="http://hoststar.at"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://hoststar.at</a>],
so we can do a test session with
DIS (hopefully).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar
2021 um 23:13 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D
and VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
What I was going to do is try to
get DIS from GitHub and DIS from
X_ITE to talk to each other.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:08 PM
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
ok<br>
<br>
let me repeat your proposal:<br>
<br>
>>>>> Of the
published work available in that
regard, we have BS Collaborate,
DIS, and the Draft X3D
Specification for NetworkSensor.
I think the first step would be
to take these, see what they
have in common, and go from
there for deeper analyses.<br>
<br>
I think everybody agrees.<br>
<br>
So what would be the very first
step (before the first step)?
Assign responsibilities? Create
a Wiki? Ask for official
decision? Just do it? Who? What?
When? Create an official
backlog? Use the S&P-ARK?<br>
<br>
kind regards<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem
Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX
Mail gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 07:40 schrieb
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>:<br>
<br>
Not much,<br>
<br>
1) It's another use case, which
has proven it's usefulness
during SrrTrains v0.01:<br>
- Customized Client Side
Calculations<br>
( sent to x3d-public in
January 2014: <a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>][<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>]]
)<br>
<br>
2) And an idea (which is not yet
settled).<br>
- idea is to have two
levels of identification:<br>
identify the sensor by
"streamName" + "networkSensorId"<br>
(BS Collaborate:
only "streamName"<br>
Octaga: only
"networkSensorId")<br>
<br>
1) the stream =
the model = the real life
entity e.g. "car"<br>
2) the sensor
nodes themselves
e.g. "steering", "motor",
"doors"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Januar
2021 um 03:59 Uhr<br>
Von: "GL" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a><br>
An: "'X3D Graphics public
mailing list'" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D
and VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
I am not sure what results you
are referring to. Did I miss
something?<br>
<br>
<br>
From: x3d-public [<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>]]
On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin<br>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021
9:21 PM<br>
To: 'X3D Graphics public mailing
list'<br>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Re:
X3D and VRML for multiuser
worlds<br>
<br>
<br>
so basically you want to ignore
my results?<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem
Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX
Mail gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 01:07 schrieb GL <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a>:<br>
Christoph,<br>
<br>
Thank you for the clarifications
and your general dedication. I
believe that little
misunderstandings should be
addressed before they snowball
into bigger misconceptions.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> If we specify a general
Network Sensor API, then content
can run<br>
> with any X3D Player that
supports the Network Sensor API.<br>
<br>
If you read again my last
paragraph, I try to make a
distinction between a multiuser
client and a X3D player. In
other words, the player is not
necessarily the client. It
appears to be a common
misconception that the X3D
player must also be the MU
client, while in truth it really
doesn't have to. For the reasons
previously stated, I tend to
prefer that the player does not
in fact act as the client.<br>
<br>
<br>
> However, if I use the
X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST
use the X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the
protocol is proprietary.<br>
<br>
<br>
That is precisely why I am here.
I do NOT want the application
protocol to be proprietary. And
the fact that we still don't
have a standard keeps me from
moving forward, because any
development efforts I make may
someday have to be rewritten
once we do have a standard. IOW,
I am not a big fan of reworking
systems. I'd rather use open
standards as early in the
process as possible to
facilitate interoperability
later.<br>
<br>
<br>
> If the protocol was
specified, then I could use ANY<br>
> server with the X3Daemon
Client.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ideally, systems could
interoperate, though there are
other factors to consider. For
example avatars must login to
authenticate their identity and
assets, consisting of
information that may or may not
be available to a third party
server. But yes, you get the
general idea.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> It is not sufficient to
specify the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of
the NetworkSensor node. ...,<br>
> but I had the feeling that
you want to<br>
> omit the specification of
the protocol.<br>
<br>
<br>
Read again, I was referring
specifically to network
protocols. Still, at this early
stage, I feel it may be a little
premature to get too involved
with an application protocol,
that until we get a better grasp
of what the requirements will
be. For this reason, I am of the
opinion that fields and events
should be specified first. Just
so that we have something to
build upon.<br>
<br>
Of the published work available
in that regard, we have BS
Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft
X3D Specification for
NetworkSensor. I think the first
step would be to take these, see
what they have in common, and go
from there for deeper analyses.<br>
<br>
Once we have that settled, IMO,
only then should we turn to
discuss an application layer
protocol and its ramifications.
GL<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: x3d-public [<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>]]
On Behalf Of<br>
> Christoph Valentin<br>
> Sent: Friday, January 8,
2021 5:09 PM<br>
> To: X3D Graphics public
mailing list<br>
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public]
X3D and VRML for multiuser
worlds<br>
><br>
> Dear Gina Lauren<br>
><br>
> Please find some feed back
*inline*.<br>
><br>
> Generally, please do not
judge too hard, I'm not a native
speaker and still<br>
> some of my wordings do not
fit to the real intention.<br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
> Christoph<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >You want to lock in
your users. That's not the
spirit of open source.<br>
><br>
> For once I was beginning to
open up about the inner workings
of a multiuser<br>
> system, but surprisingly,
you apparently don't want to
hear about it. It is<br>
> difficult to talk about
open standards for a NSN if we
can't refer to<br>
> actual implementations.
It's not like there are a lot of
them around..<br>
> [CV]: I should not have
written this. However, I was a
little bit<br>
> impatient, because I have
been preaching for years and
years that the<br>
> protocol itself must be
specified. It is not sufficient
to specify the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of
the NetworkSensor node. Maybe I
did not read<br>
> your words sufficiently
thoroughly, but I had the
feeling that you want to<br>
> omit the specification of
the protocol.<br>
><br>
> Also, who said anything
about open source being a
requirement? I was<br>
> actually volunteering
closed source information for
the benefit of an open<br>
> standard. If you can't see
that I was actually "giving"
something to the<br>
> community.. then perhaps I
am wasting my time???<br>
> [CV]: Here I used "open
source" and meant "open
protocols", sorry, my<br>
> mistake. And, yes, I also
"gave" a lot. Using too much
time for my hobbies,<br>
> was one major reason, why
my wife left us in 2015
(afterwards the SrrTrains<br>
> v0.01 project fell into
hibernation mode due to lack of
resources).<br>
><br>
> Finally, if you would like
to discuss an application layer
protocol, maybe<br>
> look into work that has
been done in the past referred
to as vrtp and x3dp.<br>
> Not much, but a starting
point. So far I have only heard
vague comments<br>
> about SCTP, UDP, etc. (see
below)<br>
> [CV]: I am sure that many
people have contributed many
parts of the puzzle.<br>
> Now we need somebody, who
fits all together (that's not
me, is it?)<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > [CV]: I never
suggested to specifiy the
transport protocol (http, rtp,<br>
> > sctp, tcp, msrp, sip,
xmpp, ........).<br>
><br>
> hhhmmm.. I'm confused, what
is this about???<br>
> [CV]: Let's assume, we
specify an "Application Layer
Protocol" (let's call<br>
> it ALP in the sense of a
"working title"). Probably the
ALP will consist of<br>
> the definition of a few
PDUs (e.g. in XML, JSON, YAML or
similar syntax).<br>
> Now we have to define, how
the PDUs have to be transmitted
over the<br>
> network. Will they be sent
as payload in http messages (in
the body)? Will<br>
> they be sent as payload in
SIP messages (in the body)? Will
they be sent<br>
> directly over tcp
connections?<br>
> To get historically: at the
beginning of the IETF they had a
great<br>
> movement. You could get
T-Shirts with the meme "IP over
everything". IP<br>
> should connect any network
with any network, building the
Inter-network. So<br>
> they had to write one RFC
for each L2 protocol in order to
specify, how IP<br>
> has to be transported over
any L2 link/network.<br>
> I am dreaming of an "ALP
over everything" movement.<br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: SCTP and UDP are
members of the TCP/IP protocol
family. UDP is as<br>
> >old as TCP, just
simpler. SCTP is younger. It
tries to merge advantages<br>
> >of both TCP and UDP and
was originally invented to
transport SS7 protocols<br>
> >(SIGTRAN). SCTP
supports 64k streams per
association, what perfectly fits<br>
> >to our needs, imho<br>
><br>
> Why are you trying to
lecture me about network
protocols? And what is it<br>
> exactly that you are saying
or not saying, I find rather
perplexing and<br>
> fail to see the relevancy.
Let's keep going...<br>
> [CV]: I thought you wrote
"SCTP is not TCP/IP". I want to
stress that SCTP<br>
> actually IS TCP/IP<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: Actually I
suggested to specifiy ONE AND
ONLY ONE application layer<br>
> protocol,<br>
><br>
> No-one is questioning this
as far as I know. Isn't that
precisely what we<br>
> are trying to do?<br>
> Why are you augmenting this
in my comments?<br>
><br>
> [CV]: (see above) Maybe I
did not read your words
sufficiently thoroughly,<br>
> but I had the feeling that
you want to omit the
specification of the<br>
> protocol.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: The API (i.e
Network Sensor) must be
specified to run ONE content<br>
> with ANY X3D Player.<br>
><br>
> Let's be careful here. The
X3D player does not necessarily
need to have<br>
> agency over the application
protocol. For example the
X3Daemon client<br>
> (sorry to bring it up) is
entirely separate from the
player other than for<br>
> interpreting ECMAScripts
and rendering the results to
screen. IOW, the<br>
> X3Daemon client can
theoretically run in any X3D
player, regardless of<br>
> internal multiuser coding,
as long as ECMAScript
(JavaScript) is supported.<br>
> This makes it very easy for
authors to script avatar and
object behaviors,<br>
> since it provides direct
access to X3D nodes. It is also
a reason why we<br>
> need to define a
NetworkSensor node as part of
the X3D standard.<br>
> [CV]: That's exactly what I
am saying: you specified your
X3Daemon client<br>
> API, so a content that uses
that API, can theoretically run
with ANY X3D<br>
> Player (that the X3Daemon
client supports). If we specify
a general Network<br>
> Sensor API, then content
can run with any X3D Player that
supports the<br>
> Network Sensor API.<br>
> However, if I use the
X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST
use the X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the
protocol is proprietary. If the
protocol was specified,<br>
> then I could use ANY server
with the X3Daemon Client. It's
similar with BS<br>
> Contact and BS Collaborate.<br>
> Most customers are very
sensitive about getting locked
in. No matter if<br>
> open source or closed
source. We (my employer) made
this experience with<br>
> railway operators, too.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
> GL<br>
><br>
>
________________________________________________________<br>
> * * * Interactive
Multimedia - Internet Management
* * *<br>
> * * Virtual Reality --
Application Programming * *<br>
> * 3D Net Productions
3dnetproductions.com[<a
href="http://3dnetproductions.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://3dnetproductions.com</a>[<a
href="http://3dnetproductions.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://3dnetproductions.com</a>]]
*<br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
x3d-public mailing list<br>
<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org</a>]<br>
<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>[<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>]<br>
_______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing list
<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org</a>]
<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________</a>[<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________</a>]
x3d-public mailing list <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org</a>]
<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________</a>[<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org_______________________________________________</a>]<br>
x3d-public mailing list<br>
<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org</a>]<br>
<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>[<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>]<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
x3d-public mailing list<br>
<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>[<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>]</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>
<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________ x3d-public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>
<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>