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<p>Ah, no VPN required!</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>On 1/25/21 5:33 PM, John Carlson wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3a409cf5-5203-a5d2-f362-296c0589bda3@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Okay, so I have to schedule on a calender when to use VPN, but
first I have to get on VPN</p>
<p>I got to the calendar. Is there some way to translate to
English?</p>
<p>This is the point where you steal my files? It always seems to
happen with VPN.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 5:08 PM, Christoph
Valentin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:trinity-10900d88-0f4d-4369-8ef2-973affe0e99d-1611616085330@3c-app-gmx-bap08">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Hi John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You can access the VPN's calendar directly at the
experimental owncloud web interface at my vServer:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(owncloud is a framework mainly for file sharing, but
also has calendar and contacts via WebDav)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>URL <a href="http://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud</a></div>
<div>
<div>user name vpncal</div>
<div>password X3D4</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All the best</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;
padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid
#C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
24. Januar 2021 um 15:35 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by
Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at a time)</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please <span style="font-size: 14.0px;"><strong>expect
some maintenance work (short interruptions)
next week Saturday (30th January).</strong></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have now <span style="font-size: 14.0px;"><strong>defined
an online calendar for the VPN</strong></span>,
to avoid flooding the mailing list.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The calendar can be <span style="font-size:
14.0px;"><strong>easily integrated with the
calendar on your Android phone</strong></span>
(see the green entry below!!!).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Probably it is possible to integrate it with
any smartphone (it uses the WebDav standard), but
I haven't tried.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Installation instructions:</div>
<div>1) Install DAVx5 on your Android smartphone
(available at F-Droid)</div>
<div>2) Create new DAVx5 account <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at"
moz-do-not-send="true">"vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at"</a></div>
<div> - URL: <a
href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/</a></div>
<div> - user: vpncal</div>
<div> - pw: X3D4</div>
<div>3) Enable and trigger the synchronization of
WebCal</div>
<div>4) Go to "Calendar" App: make sure the
"personal" calendar is activated for display</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The installation instructions will be available
at <a href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental</a>
soon.</div>
<div><img
src="cid:part8.4F758235.B988F888@gmail.com"
class="" width="275" height="488">
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>If you have set the synchronization
correctly, then it should be possible for you
to make calendar entries, too (e.g. test
sessions, where you need more than 2
connections, or some specific multicast
address).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px
10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px
10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag,
23. Januar 2021 um 14:11 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Tiny VPN for
Use by Web3D Community (max. 10 connections
at a time)</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;">
<div>Hi John, Gina Lauren, Jordi, and all
interested in multiuser</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Being very curious to get to know,
whether the "server-less mode" could
really work, I was thinking about what
could I contribute?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have got this tiny vServer at
hoststar.at (hosted at some cloud in
Germany), where I could implement a VPN
for "server-less experiments".</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Voilá</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So, if you have a Windows 10 client,
then what you can do:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1) Install OpenVPN Connect software
(community edition) - <a
href="https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/</a><br>
<br>
2) Unzip the config.zip from attachment
into C:\Program Files\OpenVPN\config</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3) Start OpenVPN Client</div>
<div> </div>
<div>4) Connect</div>
<div> </div>
<div>5) Now your client is a multihomed
host with an additional network
interface at 172.27.224.0/19</div>
<div> </div>
<div>6) The network 172.27.224.0/19 is an
island. Only people, who receive this
e-mail, can connect.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What is missing:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>a) a proof that multicast addresses
work on the VPN</div>
<div>b) an online calendar to coordinate
the multicast sessions at the VPN-> I
will provide this on request.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um
01:34 Uhr<br>
Von: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
An: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML
for multiuser worlds<br>
Hi John,<br>
<br>
Currently having two issues:<br>
<br>
1) can test the VPN only with two
Windows clients -> you have to create
your own experience with the Linux
client<br>
2) still have to make the VPN permanent
-> now the VPN has to be restarted
manually after server restart.<br>
<br>
Pls. expect final answer by Saturday
evening, CET.<br>
<br>
My plan:<br>
<br>
I will publish (at a hidden place):<br>
<br>
a) example configuration from Windows
OpenVPN Connect client<br>
b) ca-yeti.crt self-signed root
certificate, which you have to trust<br>
c) x3d-public.key private key for the
Web3D community (not really private)<br>
d) x3d-public.crt certificate for the
Web3D community (signed by yeti -> my
server will let you in)<br>
e) ta.key additional symmetric key (must
be identical on client and server)<br>
<br>
Physical restriction: max. 10
connections at the same time, dynamic IP
addresses from a private IPv4 range
(172.27.224.0/19).<br>
<br>
The VPN will be an island - the server
will not route that subnet, unless from
one client to the others (hopefully
including multicast packets - not yet
tested). <br>
<br>
KR<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Januar 2021 um
07:38 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML
for multiuser worlds<br>
I am now prepared to have a "client" of
your UDP DIS server at hoststar.at. I
need things like address and port, per
X3D PDU nodes.<br>
<br>
If there is ssh information for reaching
your server network, let me know. This
is my preferred method. I do not
believe I need special permission except
for perhaps a new user account.<br>
<br>
I've never really used a VPN, and will
probably need instructions. My
experience with VPN varies "not very
useful" and "OMG, my friends are going
to steal my files."<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 1/10/21 11:28 PM, Christoph Valentin
wrote:<br>
If everything works fine (and if I've
understood correctly), then you can do
tests with multicast IP transport,
although you are geographically
separated.<br>
<br>
That's what I would like to try
basically<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android
Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.<br>
Am 11.01.21, 05:11 schrieb John Carlson
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com</a>]:<br>
My friends have asked me to set up a VPN
on my machine in the past. I don't
really see the value of a VPN. <br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:03 PM
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
What I am going to try is to setup a VPN
with OpenVPN and my vServer at
hoststar.at[<a href="http://hoststar.at"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://hoststar.at</a>],
so we can do a test session with DIS
(hopefully).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar 2021 um
23:13 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML
for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
What I was going to do is try to get DIS
from GitHub and DIS from X_ITE to talk
to each other.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:08 PM
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
ok<br>
<br>
let me repeat your proposal:<br>
<br>
>>>>> Of the published
work available in that regard, we have
BS Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft X3D
Specification for NetworkSensor. I think
the first step would be to take these,
see what they have in common, and go
from there for deeper analyses.<br>
<br>
I think everybody agrees.<br>
<br>
So what would be the very first step
(before the first step)? Assign
responsibilities? Create a Wiki? Ask for
official decision? Just do it? Who?
What? When? Create an official backlog?
Use the S&P-ARK?<br>
<br>
kind regards<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android
Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 07:40 schrieb Christoph
Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>:<br>
<br>
Not much,<br>
<br>
1) It's another use case, which has
proven it's usefulness during SrrTrains
v0.01:<br>
- Customized Client Side
Calculations<br>
( sent to x3d-public in January
2014: <a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>][<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>]]
)<br>
<br>
2) And an idea (which is not yet
settled).<br>
- idea is to have two levels of
identification:<br>
identify the sensor by
"streamName" + "networkSensorId"<br>
(BS Collaborate: only
"streamName"<br>
Octaga: only
"networkSensorId")<br>
<br>
1) the stream = the
model = the real life entity
e.g. "car"<br>
2) the sensor nodes
themselves
e.g. "steering", "motor", "doors"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Januar 2021 um
03:59 Uhr<br>
Von: "GL" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a><br>
An: "'X3D Graphics public mailing list'"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML
for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
I am not sure what results you are
referring to. Did I miss something?<br>
<br>
<br>
From: x3d-public
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>]]
On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin<br>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 9:21 PM<br>
To: 'X3D Graphics public mailing list'<br>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Re: X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
<br>
so basically you want to ignore my
results?<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android
Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 01:07 schrieb GL <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a>:<br>
Christoph,<br>
<br>
Thank you for the clarifications and
your general dedication. I believe that
little misunderstandings should be
addressed before they snowball into
bigger misconceptions.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> If we specify a general Network
Sensor API, then content can run<br>
> with any X3D Player that supports
the Network Sensor API.<br>
<br>
If you read again my last paragraph, I
try to make a distinction between a
multiuser client and a X3D player. In
other words, the player is not
necessarily the client. It appears to be
a common misconception that the X3D
player must also be the MU client, while
in truth it really doesn't have to. For
the reasons previously stated, I tend to
prefer that the player does not in fact
act as the client.<br>
<br>
<br>
> However, if I use the X3Daemon
Client API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the protocol is
proprietary.<br>
<br>
<br>
That is precisely why I am here. I do
NOT want the application protocol to be
proprietary. And the fact that we still
don't have a standard keeps me from
moving forward, because any development
efforts I make may someday have to be
rewritten once we do have a standard.
IOW, I am not a big fan of reworking
systems. I'd rather use open standards
as early in the process as possible to
facilitate interoperability later.<br>
<br>
<br>
> If the protocol was specified, then
I could use ANY<br>
> server with the X3Daemon Client.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ideally, systems could interoperate,
though there are other factors to
consider. For example avatars must login
to authenticate their identity and
assets, consisting of information that
may or may not be available to a third
party server. But yes, you get the
general idea.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> It is not sufficient to specify the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of the
NetworkSensor node. ...,<br>
> but I had the feeling that you want
to<br>
> omit the specification of the
protocol.<br>
<br>
<br>
Read again, I was referring specifically
to network protocols. Still, at this
early stage, I feel it may be a little
premature to get too involved with an
application protocol, that until we get
a better grasp of what the requirements
will be. For this reason, I am of the
opinion that fields and events should be
specified first. Just so that we have
something to build upon.<br>
<br>
Of the published work available in that
regard, we have BS Collaborate, DIS, and
the Draft X3D Specification for
NetworkSensor. I think the first step
would be to take these, see what they
have in common, and go from there for
deeper analyses.<br>
<br>
Once we have that settled, IMO, only
then should we turn to discuss an
application layer protocol and its
ramifications. GL<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: x3d-public
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>]]
On Behalf Of<br>
> Christoph Valentin<br>
> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 5:09
PM<br>
> To: X3D Graphics public mailing
list<br>
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
><br>
> Dear Gina Lauren<br>
><br>
> Please find some feed back
*inline*.<br>
><br>
> Generally, please do not judge too
hard, I'm not a native speaker and still<br>
> some of my wordings do not fit to
the real intention.<br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
> Christoph<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >You want to lock in your users.
That's not the spirit of open source.<br>
><br>
> For once I was beginning to open up
about the inner workings of a multiuser<br>
> system, but surprisingly, you
apparently don't want to hear about it.
It is<br>
> difficult to talk about open
standards for a NSN if we can't refer to<br>
> actual implementations. It's not
like there are a lot of them around..<br>
> [CV]: I should not have written
this. However, I was a little bit<br>
> impatient, because I have been
preaching for years and years that the<br>
> protocol itself must be specified.
It is not sufficient to specify the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of the
NetworkSensor node. Maybe I did not read<br>
> your words sufficiently thoroughly,
but I had the feeling that you want to<br>
> omit the specification of the
protocol.<br>
><br>
> Also, who said anything about open
source being a requirement? I was<br>
> actually volunteering closed source
information for the benefit of an open<br>
> standard. If you can't see that I
was actually "giving" something to the<br>
> community.. then perhaps I am
wasting my time???<br>
> [CV]: Here I used "open source" and
meant "open protocols", sorry, my<br>
> mistake. And, yes, I also "gave" a
lot. Using too much time for my hobbies,<br>
> was one major reason, why my wife
left us in 2015 (afterwards the
SrrTrains<br>
> v0.01 project fell into hibernation
mode due to lack of resources).<br>
><br>
> Finally, if you would like to
discuss an application layer protocol,
maybe<br>
> look into work that has been done
in the past referred to as vrtp and
x3dp.<br>
> Not much, but a starting point. So
far I have only heard vague comments<br>
> about SCTP, UDP, etc. (see below)<br>
> [CV]: I am sure that many people
have contributed many parts of the
puzzle.<br>
> Now we need somebody, who fits all
together (that's not me, is it?)<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > [CV]: I never suggested to
specifiy the transport protocol (http,
rtp,<br>
> > sctp, tcp, msrp, sip, xmpp,
........).<br>
><br>
> hhhmmm.. I'm confused, what is this
about???<br>
> [CV]: Let's assume, we specify an
"Application Layer Protocol" (let's call<br>
> it ALP in the sense of a "working
title"). Probably the ALP will consist
of<br>
> the definition of a few PDUs (e.g.
in XML, JSON, YAML or similar syntax).<br>
> Now we have to define, how the PDUs
have to be transmitted over the<br>
> network. Will they be sent as
payload in http messages (in the body)?
Will<br>
> they be sent as payload in SIP
messages (in the body)? Will they be
sent<br>
> directly over tcp connections?<br>
> To get historically: at the
beginning of the IETF they had a great<br>
> movement. You could get T-Shirts
with the meme "IP over everything". IP<br>
> should connect any network with any
network, building the Inter-network. So<br>
> they had to write one RFC for each
L2 protocol in order to specify, how IP<br>
> has to be transported over any L2
link/network.<br>
> I am dreaming of an "ALP over
everything" movement.<br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: SCTP and UDP are members
of the TCP/IP protocol family. UDP is as<br>
> >old as TCP, just simpler. SCTP
is younger. It tries to merge advantages<br>
> >of both TCP and UDP and was
originally invented to transport SS7
protocols<br>
> >(SIGTRAN). SCTP supports 64k
streams per association, what perfectly
fits<br>
> >to our needs, imho<br>
><br>
> Why are you trying to lecture me
about network protocols? And what is it<br>
> exactly that you are saying or not
saying, I find rather perplexing and<br>
> fail to see the relevancy. Let's
keep going...<br>
> [CV]: I thought you wrote "SCTP is
not TCP/IP". I want to stress that SCTP<br>
> actually IS TCP/IP<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: Actually I suggested to
specifiy ONE AND ONLY ONE application
layer<br>
> protocol,<br>
><br>
> No-one is questioning this as far
as I know. Isn't that precisely what we<br>
> are trying to do?<br>
> Why are you augmenting this in my
comments?<br>
><br>
> [CV]: (see above) Maybe I did not
read your words sufficiently thoroughly,<br>
> but I had the feeling that you want
to omit the specification of the<br>
> protocol.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: The API (i.e Network
Sensor) must be specified to run ONE
content<br>
> with ANY X3D Player.<br>
><br>
> Let's be careful here. The X3D
player does not necessarily need to have<br>
> agency over the application
protocol. For example the X3Daemon
client<br>
> (sorry to bring it up) is entirely
separate from the player other than for<br>
> interpreting ECMAScripts and
rendering the results to screen. IOW,
the<br>
> X3Daemon client can theoretically
run in any X3D player, regardless of<br>
> internal multiuser coding, as long
as ECMAScript (JavaScript) is supported.<br>
> This makes it very easy for authors
to script avatar and object behaviors,<br>
> since it provides direct access to
X3D nodes. It is also a reason why we<br>
> need to define a NetworkSensor node
as part of the X3D standard.<br>
> [CV]: That's exactly what I am
saying: you specified your X3Daemon
client<br>
> API, so a content that uses that
API, can theoretically run with ANY X3D<br>
> Player (that the X3Daemon client
supports). If we specify a general
Network<br>
> Sensor API, then content can run
with any X3D Player that supports the<br>
> Network Sensor API.<br>
> However, if I use the X3Daemon
Client API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the protocol is
proprietary. If the protocol was
specified,<br>
> then I could use ANY server with
the X3Daemon Client. It's similar with
BS<br>
> Contact and BS Collaborate.<br>
> Most customers are very sensitive
about getting locked in. No matter if<br>
> open source or closed source. We
(my employer) made this experience with<br>
> railway operators, too.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
> GL<br>
><br>
>
________________________________________________________<br>
> * * * Interactive Multimedia -
Internet Management * * *<br>
> * * Virtual Reality -- Application
Programming * *<br>
> * 3D Net Productions
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href="http://3dnetproductions.com"
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