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<p>Okay, so I have to schedule on a calender when to use VPN, but
first I have to get on VPN</p>
<p>I got to the calendar. Is there some way to translate to English?</p>
<p>This is the point where you steal my files? It always seems to
happen with VPN.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 5:08 PM, Christoph Valentin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:trinity-10900d88-0f4d-4369-8ef2-973affe0e99d-1611616085330@3c-app-gmx-bap08">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Hi John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You can access the VPN's calendar directly at the
experimental owncloud web interface at my vServer:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(owncloud is a framework mainly for file sharing, but also
has calendar and contacts via WebDav)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>URL <a href="http://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud</a></div>
<div>
<div>user name vpncal</div>
<div>password X3D4</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All the best</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
24. Januar 2021 um 15:35 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "John Carlson" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by
Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at a time)</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please <span style="font-size: 14.0px;"><strong>expect
some maintenance work (short interruptions) next
week Saturday (30th January).</strong></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have now <span style="font-size: 14.0px;"><strong>defined
an online calendar for the VPN</strong></span>,
to avoid flooding the mailing list.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The calendar can be <span style="font-size:
14.0px;"><strong>easily integrated with the
calendar on your Android phone</strong></span>
(see the green entry below!!!).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Probably it is possible to integrate it with any
smartphone (it uses the WebDav standard), but I
haven't tried.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Installation instructions:</div>
<div>1) Install DAVx5 on your Android smartphone
(available at F-Droid)</div>
<div>2) Create new DAVx5 account <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at">"vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at"</a></div>
<div> - URL: <a
href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/</a></div>
<div> - user: vpncal</div>
<div> - pw: X3D4</div>
<div>3) Enable and trigger the synchronization of
WebCal</div>
<div>4) Go to "Calendar" App: make sure the "personal"
calendar is activated for display</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The installation instructions will be available
at <a href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental</a>
soon.</div>
<div><img src="cid:part4.46B3F534.043BD40B@gmail.com"
class="" width="275" height="488">
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>If you have set the synchronization
correctly, then it should be possible for you to
make calendar entries, too (e.g. test sessions,
where you need more than 2 connections, or some
specific multicast address).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px
10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px
10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag,
23. Januar 2021 um 14:11 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Tiny VPN for Use
by Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at a
time)</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;">
<div>Hi John, Gina Lauren, Jordi, and all
interested in multiuser</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Being very curious to get to know,
whether the "server-less mode" could
really work, I was thinking about what
could I contribute?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have got this tiny vServer at
hoststar.at (hosted at some cloud in
Germany), where I could implement a VPN
for "server-less experiments".</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Voilá</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So, if you have a Windows 10 client,
then what you can do:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1) Install OpenVPN Connect software
(community edition) - <a
href="https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/</a><br>
<br>
2) Unzip the config.zip from attachment
into C:\Program Files\OpenVPN\config</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3) Start OpenVPN Client</div>
<div> </div>
<div>4) Connect</div>
<div> </div>
<div>5) Now your client is a multihomed host
with an additional network interface at
172.27.224.0/19</div>
<div> </div>
<div>6) The network 172.27.224.0/19 is an
island. Only people, who receive this
e-mail, can connect.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What is missing:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>a) a proof that multicast addresses
work on the VPN</div>
<div>b) an online calendar to coordinate the
multicast sessions at the VPN-> I will
provide this on request.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um
01:34 Uhr<br>
Von: "Christoph Valentin"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
An: "John Carlson"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for
multiuser worlds<br>
Hi John,<br>
<br>
Currently having two issues:<br>
<br>
1) can test the VPN only with two Windows
clients -> you have to create your own
experience with the Linux client<br>
2) still have to make the VPN permanent
-> now the VPN has to be restarted
manually after server restart.<br>
<br>
Pls. expect final answer by Saturday
evening, CET.<br>
<br>
My plan:<br>
<br>
I will publish (at a hidden place):<br>
<br>
a) example configuration from Windows
OpenVPN Connect client<br>
b) ca-yeti.crt self-signed root
certificate, which you have to trust<br>
c) x3d-public.key private key for the
Web3D community (not really private)<br>
d) x3d-public.crt certificate for the
Web3D community (signed by yeti -> my
server will let you in)<br>
e) ta.key additional symmetric key (must
be identical on client and server)<br>
<br>
Physical restriction: max. 10 connections
at the same time, dynamic IP addresses
from a private IPv4 range
(172.27.224.0/19).<br>
<br>
The VPN will be an island - the server
will not route that subnet, unless from
one client to the others (hopefully
including multicast packets - not yet
tested). <br>
<br>
KR<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Januar 2021 um
07:38 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for
multiuser worlds<br>
I am now prepared to have a "client" of
your UDP DIS server at hoststar.at. I
need things like address and port, per X3D
PDU nodes.<br>
<br>
If there is ssh information for reaching
your server network, let me know. This is
my preferred method. I do not believe I
need special permission except for perhaps
a new user account.<br>
<br>
I've never really used a VPN, and will
probably need instructions. My experience
with VPN varies "not very useful" and
"OMG, my friends are going to steal my
files."<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 1/10/21 11:28 PM, Christoph Valentin
wrote:<br>
If everything works fine (and if I've
understood correctly), then you can do
tests with multicast IP transport,
although you are geographically separated.<br>
<br>
That's what I would like to try basically<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android
Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.<br>
Am 11.01.21, 05:11 schrieb John Carlson
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com</a>]:<br>
My friends have asked me to set up a VPN
on my machine in the past. I don't really
see the value of a VPN. <br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:03 PM Christoph
Valentin
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
What I am going to try is to setup a VPN
with OpenVPN and my vServer at
hoststar.at[<a href="http://hoststar.at"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://hoststar.at</a>],
so we can do a test session with DIS
(hopefully).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar 2021 um
23:13 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]"><yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for
multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
What I was going to do is try to get DIS
from GitHub and DIS from X_ITE to talk to
each other.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:08 PM Christoph
Valentin
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
ok<br>
<br>
let me repeat your proposal:<br>
<br>
>>>>> Of the published work
available in that regard, we have BS
Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft X3D
Specification for NetworkSensor. I think
the first step would be to take these, see
what they have in common, and go from
there for deeper analyses.<br>
<br>
I think everybody agrees.<br>
<br>
So what would be the very first step
(before the first step)? Assign
responsibilities? Create a Wiki? Ask for
official decision? Just do it? Who? What?
When? Create an official backlog? Use the
S&P-ARK?<br>
<br>
kind regards<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android
Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 07:40 schrieb Christoph
Valentin
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>:<br>
<br>
Not much,<br>
<br>
1) It's another use case, which has proven
it's usefulness during SrrTrains v0.01:<br>
- Customized Client Side Calculations<br>
( sent to x3d-public in January
2014: <a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>][<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>]]
)<br>
<br>
2) And an idea (which is not yet settled).<br>
- idea is to have two levels of
identification:<br>
identify the sensor by
"streamName" + "networkSensorId"<br>
(BS Collaborate: only
"streamName"<br>
Octaga: only
"networkSensorId")<br>
<br>
1) the stream = the model
= the real life entity e.g. "car"<br>
2) the sensor nodes
themselves
e.g. "steering", "motor", "doors"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Januar 2021 um
03:59 Uhr<br>
Von: "GL"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a><br>
An: "'X3D Graphics public mailing list'"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for
multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
I am not sure what results you are
referring to. Did I miss something?<br>
<br>
<br>
From: x3d-public
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>]]
On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin<br>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 9:21 PM<br>
To: 'X3D Graphics public mailing list'<br>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Re: X3D and VRML
for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
<br>
so basically you want to ignore my
results?<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android
Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 01:07 schrieb GL
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a>:<br>
Christoph,<br>
<br>
Thank you for the clarifications and your
general dedication. I believe that little
misunderstandings should be addressed
before they snowball into bigger
misconceptions.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> If we specify a general Network
Sensor API, then content can run<br>
> with any X3D Player that supports the
Network Sensor API.<br>
<br>
If you read again my last paragraph, I try
to make a distinction between a multiuser
client and a X3D player. In other words,
the player is not necessarily the client.
It appears to be a common misconception
that the X3D player must also be the MU
client, while in truth it really doesn't
have to. For the reasons previously
stated, I tend to prefer that the player
does not in fact act as the client.<br>
<br>
<br>
> However, if I use the X3Daemon Client
API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the protocol is
proprietary.<br>
<br>
<br>
That is precisely why I am here. I do NOT
want the application protocol to be
proprietary. And the fact that we still
don't have a standard keeps me from moving
forward, because any development efforts I
make may someday have to be rewritten once
we do have a standard. IOW, I am not a big
fan of reworking systems. I'd rather use
open standards as early in the process as
possible to facilitate interoperability
later.<br>
<br>
<br>
> If the protocol was specified, then I
could use ANY<br>
> server with the X3Daemon Client.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ideally, systems could interoperate,
though there are other factors to
consider. For example avatars must login
to authenticate their identity and assets,
consisting of information that may or may
not be available to a third party server.
But yes, you get the general idea.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> It is not sufficient to specify the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of the
NetworkSensor node. ...,<br>
> but I had the feeling that you want
to<br>
> omit the specification of the
protocol.<br>
<br>
<br>
Read again, I was referring specifically
to network protocols. Still, at this early
stage, I feel it may be a little premature
to get too involved with an application
protocol, that until we get a better grasp
of what the requirements will be. For this
reason, I am of the opinion that fields
and events should be specified first. Just
so that we have something to build upon.<br>
<br>
Of the published work available in that
regard, we have BS Collaborate, DIS, and
the Draft X3D Specification for
NetworkSensor. I think the first step
would be to take these, see what they have
in common, and go from there for deeper
analyses.<br>
<br>
Once we have that settled, IMO, only then
should we turn to discuss an application
layer protocol and its ramifications. GL<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: x3d-public
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>]]
On Behalf Of<br>
> Christoph Valentin<br>
> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 5:09 PM<br>
> To: X3D Graphics public mailing list<br>
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
><br>
> Dear Gina Lauren<br>
><br>
> Please find some feed back *inline*.<br>
><br>
> Generally, please do not judge too
hard, I'm not a native speaker and still<br>
> some of my wordings do not fit to the
real intention.<br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
> Christoph<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >You want to lock in your users.
That's not the spirit of open source.<br>
><br>
> For once I was beginning to open up
about the inner workings of a multiuser<br>
> system, but surprisingly, you
apparently don't want to hear about it. It
is<br>
> difficult to talk about open
standards for a NSN if we can't refer to<br>
> actual implementations. It's not like
there are a lot of them around..<br>
> [CV]: I should not have written this.
However, I was a little bit<br>
> impatient, because I have been
preaching for years and years that the<br>
> protocol itself must be specified. It
is not sufficient to specify the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of the
NetworkSensor node. Maybe I did not read<br>
> your words sufficiently thoroughly,
but I had the feeling that you want to<br>
> omit the specification of the
protocol.<br>
><br>
> Also, who said anything about open
source being a requirement? I was<br>
> actually volunteering closed source
information for the benefit of an open<br>
> standard. If you can't see that I was
actually "giving" something to the<br>
> community.. then perhaps I am wasting
my time???<br>
> [CV]: Here I used "open source" and
meant "open protocols", sorry, my<br>
> mistake. And, yes, I also "gave" a
lot. Using too much time for my hobbies,<br>
> was one major reason, why my wife
left us in 2015 (afterwards the SrrTrains<br>
> v0.01 project fell into hibernation
mode due to lack of resources).<br>
><br>
> Finally, if you would like to discuss
an application layer protocol, maybe<br>
> look into work that has been done in
the past referred to as vrtp and x3dp.<br>
> Not much, but a starting point. So
far I have only heard vague comments<br>
> about SCTP, UDP, etc. (see below)<br>
> [CV]: I am sure that many people have
contributed many parts of the puzzle.<br>
> Now we need somebody, who fits all
together (that's not me, is it?)<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > [CV]: I never suggested to
specifiy the transport protocol (http,
rtp,<br>
> > sctp, tcp, msrp, sip, xmpp,
........).<br>
><br>
> hhhmmm.. I'm confused, what is this
about???<br>
> [CV]: Let's assume, we specify an
"Application Layer Protocol" (let's call<br>
> it ALP in the sense of a "working
title"). Probably the ALP will consist of<br>
> the definition of a few PDUs (e.g. in
XML, JSON, YAML or similar syntax).<br>
> Now we have to define, how the PDUs
have to be transmitted over the<br>
> network. Will they be sent as payload
in http messages (in the body)? Will<br>
> they be sent as payload in SIP
messages (in the body)? Will they be sent<br>
> directly over tcp connections?<br>
> To get historically: at the beginning
of the IETF they had a great<br>
> movement. You could get T-Shirts with
the meme "IP over everything". IP<br>
> should connect any network with any
network, building the Inter-network. So<br>
> they had to write one RFC for each L2
protocol in order to specify, how IP<br>
> has to be transported over any L2
link/network.<br>
> I am dreaming of an "ALP over
everything" movement.<br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: SCTP and UDP are members of
the TCP/IP protocol family. UDP is as<br>
> >old as TCP, just simpler. SCTP is
younger. It tries to merge advantages<br>
> >of both TCP and UDP and was
originally invented to transport SS7
protocols<br>
> >(SIGTRAN). SCTP supports 64k
streams per association, what perfectly
fits<br>
> >to our needs, imho<br>
><br>
> Why are you trying to lecture me
about network protocols? And what is it<br>
> exactly that you are saying or not
saying, I find rather perplexing and<br>
> fail to see the relevancy. Let's keep
going...<br>
> [CV]: I thought you wrote "SCTP is
not TCP/IP". I want to stress that SCTP<br>
> actually IS TCP/IP<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: Actually I suggested to
specifiy ONE AND ONLY ONE application
layer<br>
> protocol,<br>
><br>
> No-one is questioning this as far as
I know. Isn't that precisely what we<br>
> are trying to do?<br>
> Why are you augmenting this in my
comments?<br>
><br>
> [CV]: (see above) Maybe I did not
read your words sufficiently thoroughly,<br>
> but I had the feeling that you want
to omit the specification of the<br>
> protocol.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: The API (i.e Network
Sensor) must be specified to run ONE
content<br>
> with ANY X3D Player.<br>
><br>
> Let's be careful here. The X3D player
does not necessarily need to have<br>
> agency over the application protocol.
For example the X3Daemon client<br>
> (sorry to bring it up) is entirely
separate from the player other than for<br>
> interpreting ECMAScripts and
rendering the results to screen. IOW, the<br>
> X3Daemon client can theoretically run
in any X3D player, regardless of<br>
> internal multiuser coding, as long as
ECMAScript (JavaScript) is supported.<br>
> This makes it very easy for authors
to script avatar and object behaviors,<br>
> since it provides direct access to
X3D nodes. It is also a reason why we<br>
> need to define a NetworkSensor node
as part of the X3D standard.<br>
> [CV]: That's exactly what I am
saying: you specified your X3Daemon client<br>
> API, so a content that uses that API,
can theoretically run with ANY X3D<br>
> Player (that the X3Daemon client
supports). If we specify a general Network<br>
> Sensor API, then content can run with
any X3D Player that supports the<br>
> Network Sensor API.<br>
> However, if I use the X3Daemon Client
API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the protocol is
proprietary. If the protocol was
specified,<br>
> then I could use ANY server with the
X3Daemon Client. It's similar with BS<br>
> Contact and BS Collaborate.<br>
> Most customers are very sensitive
about getting locked in. No matter if<br>
> open source or closed source. We (my
employer) made this experience with<br>
> railway operators, too.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
> GL<br>
><br>
>
________________________________________________________<br>
> * * * Interactive Multimedia -
Internet Management * * *<br>
> * * Virtual Reality -- Application
Programming * *<br>
> * 3D Net Productions
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