<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>netstat -g looks useful for determining multicast addresses.</p>
<p>John</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 6:11 PM, John Carlson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:745257ef-2767-4095-39aa-244f2d5e3494@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>I figured out how to translate into English!</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 6:08 PM, John Carlson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8f2d8846-4970-2559-6353-5a3552976761@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>Ah, no VPN required!</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>On 1/25/21 5:33 PM, John Carlson wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3a409cf5-5203-a5d2-f362-296c0589bda3@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>Okay, so I have to schedule on a calender when to use VPN,
but first I have to get on VPN</p>
<p>I got to the calendar. Is there some way to translate to
English?</p>
<p>This is the point where you steal my files? It always
seems to happen with VPN.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/21 5:08 PM, Christoph
Valentin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:trinity-10900d88-0f4d-4369-8ef2-973affe0e99d-1611616085330@3c-app-gmx-bap08">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Hi John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You can access the VPN's calendar directly at the
experimental owncloud web interface at my vServer:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(owncloud is a framework mainly for file sharing, but
also has calendar and contacts via WebDav)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>URL <a href="http://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud</a></div>
<div>
<div>user name vpncal</div>
<div>password X3D4</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All the best</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;
padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid
#C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag,
24. Januar 2021 um 15:35 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use
by Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at a time)</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size:
12.0px;">
<div>John,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please <span style="font-size: 14.0px;"><strong>expect
some maintenance work (short
interruptions) next week Saturday (30th
January).</strong></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have now <span style="font-size:
14.0px;"><strong>defined an online calendar
for the VPN</strong></span>, to avoid
flooding the mailing list.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The calendar can be <span
style="font-size: 14.0px;"><strong>easily
integrated with the calendar on your
Android phone</strong></span> (see the
green entry below!!!).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Probably it is possible to integrate it
with any smartphone (it uses the WebDav
standard), but I haven't tried.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Installation instructions:</div>
<div>1) Install DAVx5 on your Android smartphone
(available at F-Droid)</div>
<div>2) Create new DAVx5 account <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at"
moz-do-not-send="true">"vpncal@lc-soc-lc.at"</a></div>
<div> - URL: <a
href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/</a></div>
<div> - user: vpncal</div>
<div> - pw: X3D4</div>
<div>3) Enable and trigger the synchronization
of WebCal</div>
<div>4) Go to "Calendar" App: make sure the
"personal" calendar is activated for display</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The installation instructions will be
available at <a
href="https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental</a>
soon.</div>
<div><img
src="cid:part8.8140B585.81D54C6B@gmail.com"
class="" width="275" height="488">
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>If you have set the synchronization
correctly, then it should be possible for
you to make calendar entries, too (e.g.
test sessions, where you need more than 2
connections, or some specific multicast
address).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px
10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px
10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag,
23. Januar 2021 um 14:11 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Tiny VPN
for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10
connections at a time)</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:
Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Hi John, Gina Lauren, Jordi, and
all interested in multiuser</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Being very curious to get to
know, whether the "server-less mode"
could really work, I was thinking
about what could I contribute?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have got this tiny vServer at
hoststar.at (hosted at some cloud in
Germany), where I could implement a
VPN for "server-less experiments".</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Voilá</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So, if you have a Windows 10
client, then what you can do:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>1) Install OpenVPN Connect
software (community edition) - <a
href="https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/</a><br>
<br>
2) Unzip the config.zip from
attachment into C:\Program
Files\OpenVPN\config</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3) Start OpenVPN Client</div>
<div> </div>
<div>4) Connect</div>
<div> </div>
<div>5) Now your client is a
multihomed host with an additional
network interface at 172.27.224.0/19</div>
<div> </div>
<div>6) The network 172.27.224.0/19 is
an island. Only people, who receive
this e-mail, can connect.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What is missing:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>a) a proof that multicast
addresses work on the VPN</div>
<div>b) an online calendar to
coordinate the multicast sessions at
the VPN-> I will provide this on
request.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>KR,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021
um 01:34 Uhr<br>
Von: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
An: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
Hi John,<br>
<br>
Currently having two issues:<br>
<br>
1) can test the VPN only with two
Windows clients -> you have to
create your own experience with the
Linux client<br>
2) still have to make the VPN
permanent -> now the VPN has to
be restarted manually after server
restart.<br>
<br>
Pls. expect final answer by Saturday
evening, CET.<br>
<br>
My plan:<br>
<br>
I will publish (at a hidden place):<br>
<br>
a) example configuration from
Windows OpenVPN Connect client<br>
b) ca-yeti.crt self-signed root
certificate, which you have to trust<br>
c) x3d-public.key private key for
the Web3D community (not really
private)<br>
d) x3d-public.crt certificate for
the Web3D community (signed by yeti
-> my server will let you in)<br>
e) ta.key additional symmetric key
(must be identical on client and
server)<br>
<br>
Physical restriction: max. 10
connections at the same time,
dynamic IP addresses from a private
IPv4 range (172.27.224.0/19).<br>
<br>
The VPN will be an island - the
server will not route that subnet,
unless from one client to the others
(hopefully including multicast
packets - not yet tested). <br>
<br>
KR<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Januar 2021
um 07:38 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
I am now prepared to have a "client"
of your UDP DIS server at
hoststar.at. I need things like
address and port, per X3D PDU nodes.<br>
<br>
If there is ssh information for
reaching your server network, let me
know. This is my preferred method.
I do not believe I need special
permission except for perhaps a new
user account.<br>
<br>
I've never really used a VPN, and
will probably need instructions. My
experience with VPN varies "not very
useful" and "OMG, my friends are
going to steal my files."<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On 1/10/21 11:28 PM, Christoph
Valentin wrote:<br>
If everything works fine (and if
I've understood correctly), then you
can do tests with multicast IP
transport, although you are
geographically separated.<br>
<br>
That's what I would like to try
basically<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem
Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
gesendet.<br>
Am 11.01.21, 05:11 schrieb John
Carlson <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com</a>]:<br>
My friends have asked me to set up a
VPN on my machine in the past. I
don't really see the value of a
VPN. <br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:03 PM
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
What I am going to try is to setup a
VPN with OpenVPN and my vServer at
hoststar.at[<a
href="http://hoststar.at"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://hoststar.at</a>],
so we can do a test session with DIS
(hopefully).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar 2021
um 23:13 Uhr<br>
Von: "John Carlson" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com]></a><br>
An: "Christoph Valentin" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a><br>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing
list" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
What I was going to do is try to get
DIS from GitHub and DIS from X_ITE
to talk to each other.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:08 PM
Christoph Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>
wrote:<br>
ok<br>
<br>
let me repeat your proposal:<br>
<br>
>>>>> Of the
published work available in that
regard, we have BS Collaborate, DIS,
and the Draft X3D Specification for
NetworkSensor. I think the first
step would be to take these, see
what they have in common, and go
from there for deeper analyses.<br>
<br>
I think everybody agrees.<br>
<br>
So what would be the very first step
(before the first step)? Assign
responsibilities? Create a Wiki? Ask
for official decision? Just do it?
Who? What? When? Create an official
backlog? Use the S&P-ARK?<br>
<br>
kind regards<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem
Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 07:40 schrieb Christoph
Valentin <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><christoph.valentin@gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at]></a>:<br>
<br>
Not much,<br>
<br>
1) It's another use case, which has
proven it's usefulness during
SrrTrains v0.01:<br>
- Customized Client Side
Calculations<br>
( sent to x3d-public in
January 2014: <a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>][<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>[<a
href="https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf</a>]]
)<br>
<br>
2) And an idea (which is not yet
settled).<br>
- idea is to have two levels of
identification:<br>
identify the sensor by
"streamName" + "networkSensorId"<br>
(BS Collaborate: only
"streamName"<br>
Octaga: only
"networkSensorId")<br>
<br>
1) the stream = the
model = the real life entity
e.g. "car"<br>
2) the sensor nodes
themselves
e.g.
"steering", "motor", "doors"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Januar 2021
um 03:59 Uhr<br>
Von: "GL" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a><br>
An: "'X3D Graphics public mailing
list'" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org[mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org]></a><br>
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and
VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
I am not sure what results you are
referring to. Did I miss something?<br>
<br>
<br>
From: x3d-public [<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>]]
On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin<br>
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 9:21
PM<br>
To: 'X3D Graphics public mailing
list'<br>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Re: X3D
and VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
<br>
<br>
so basically you want to ignore my
results?<br>
<br>
--<br>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem
Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
gesendet.<br>
<br>
Am 09.01.21, 01:07 schrieb GL <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]"
moz-do-not-send="true"><info@3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info@3dnetproductions.com]></a>:<br>
Christoph,<br>
<br>
Thank you for the clarifications and
your general dedication. I believe
that little misunderstandings should
be addressed before they snowball
into bigger misconceptions.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> If we specify a general Network
Sensor API, then content can run<br>
> with any X3D Player that
supports the Network Sensor API.<br>
<br>
If you read again my last paragraph,
I try to make a distinction between
a multiuser client and a X3D player.
In other words, the player is not
necessarily the client. It appears
to be a common misconception that
the X3D player must also be the MU
client, while in truth it really
doesn't have to. For the reasons
previously stated, I tend to prefer
that the player does not in fact act
as the client.<br>
<br>
<br>
> However, if I use the X3Daemon
Client API, then I MUST use the
X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the protocol is
proprietary.<br>
<br>
<br>
That is precisely why I am here. I
do NOT want the application protocol
to be proprietary. And the fact that
we still don't have a standard keeps
me from moving forward, because any
development efforts I make may
someday have to be rewritten once we
do have a standard. IOW, I am not a
big fan of reworking systems. I'd
rather use open standards as early
in the process as possible to
facilitate interoperability later.<br>
<br>
<br>
> If the protocol was specified,
then I could use ANY<br>
> server with the X3Daemon
Client.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ideally, systems could interoperate,
though there are other factors to
consider. For example avatars must
login to authenticate their identity
and assets, consisting of
information that may or may not be
available to a third party server.
But yes, you get the general idea.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> It is not sufficient to specify
the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of the
NetworkSensor node. ...,<br>
> but I had the feeling that you
want to<br>
> omit the specification of the
protocol.<br>
<br>
<br>
Read again, I was referring
specifically to network protocols.
Still, at this early stage, I feel
it may be a little premature to get
too involved with an application
protocol, that until we get a better
grasp of what the requirements will
be. For this reason, I am of the
opinion that fields and events
should be specified first. Just so
that we have something to build
upon.<br>
<br>
Of the published work available in
that regard, we have BS Collaborate,
DIS, and the Draft X3D Specification
for NetworkSensor. I think the first
step would be to take these, see
what they have in common, and go
from there for deeper analyses.<br>
<br>
Once we have that settled, IMO, only
then should we turn to discuss an
application layer protocol and its
ramifications. GL<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: x3d-public [<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>]]
On Behalf Of<br>
> Christoph Valentin<br>
> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021
5:09 PM<br>
> To: X3D Graphics public mailing
list<br>
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D
and VRML for multiuser worlds<br>
><br>
> Dear Gina Lauren<br>
><br>
> Please find some feed back
*inline*.<br>
><br>
> Generally, please do not judge
too hard, I'm not a native speaker
and still<br>
> some of my wordings do not fit
to the real intention.<br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
> Christoph<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >You want to lock in your
users. That's not the spirit of open
source.<br>
><br>
> For once I was beginning to
open up about the inner workings of
a multiuser<br>
> system, but surprisingly, you
apparently don't want to hear about
it. It is<br>
> difficult to talk about open
standards for a NSN if we can't
refer to<br>
> actual implementations. It's
not like there are a lot of them
around..<br>
> [CV]: I should not have written
this. However, I was a little bit<br>
> impatient, because I have been
preaching for years and years that
the<br>
> protocol itself must be
specified. It is not sufficient to
specify the<br>
> fields and the behaviour of the
NetworkSensor node. Maybe I did not
read<br>
> your words sufficiently
thoroughly, but I had the feeling
that you want to<br>
> omit the specification of the
protocol.<br>
><br>
> Also, who said anything about
open source being a requirement? I
was<br>
> actually volunteering closed
source information for the benefit
of an open<br>
> standard. If you can't see that
I was actually "giving" something to
the<br>
> community.. then perhaps I am
wasting my time???<br>
> [CV]: Here I used "open source"
and meant "open protocols", sorry,
my<br>
> mistake. And, yes, I also
"gave" a lot. Using too much time
for my hobbies,<br>
> was one major reason, why my
wife left us in 2015 (afterwards the
SrrTrains<br>
> v0.01 project fell into
hibernation mode due to lack of
resources).<br>
><br>
> Finally, if you would like to
discuss an application layer
protocol, maybe<br>
> look into work that has been
done in the past referred to as vrtp
and x3dp.<br>
> Not much, but a starting point.
So far I have only heard vague
comments<br>
> about SCTP, UDP, etc. (see
below)<br>
> [CV]: I am sure that many
people have contributed many parts
of the puzzle.<br>
> Now we need somebody, who fits
all together (that's not me, is it?)<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > [CV]: I never suggested to
specifiy the transport protocol
(http, rtp,<br>
> > sctp, tcp, msrp, sip,
xmpp, ........).<br>
><br>
> hhhmmm.. I'm confused, what is
this about???<br>
> [CV]: Let's assume, we specify
an "Application Layer Protocol"
(let's call<br>
> it ALP in the sense of a
"working title"). Probably the ALP
will consist of<br>
> the definition of a few PDUs
(e.g. in XML, JSON, YAML or similar
syntax).<br>
> Now we have to define, how the
PDUs have to be transmitted over the<br>
> network. Will they be sent as
payload in http messages (in the
body)? Will<br>
> they be sent as payload in SIP
messages (in the body)? Will they be
sent<br>
> directly over tcp connections?<br>
> To get historically: at the
beginning of the IETF they had a
great<br>
> movement. You could get
T-Shirts with the meme "IP over
everything". IP<br>
> should connect any network with
any network, building the
Inter-network. So<br>
> they had to write one RFC for
each L2 protocol in order to
specify, how IP<br>
> has to be transported over any
L2 link/network.<br>
> I am dreaming of an "ALP over
everything" movement.<br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: SCTP and UDP are
members of the TCP/IP protocol
family. UDP is as<br>
> >old as TCP, just simpler.
SCTP is younger. It tries to merge
advantages<br>
> >of both TCP and UDP and was
originally invented to transport SS7
protocols<br>
> >(SIGTRAN). SCTP supports
64k streams per association, what
perfectly fits<br>
> >to our needs, imho<br>
><br>
> Why are you trying to lecture
me about network protocols? And what
is it<br>
> exactly that you are saying or
not saying, I find rather perplexing
and<br>
> fail to see the relevancy.
Let's keep going...<br>
> [CV]: I thought you wrote "SCTP
is not TCP/IP". I want to stress
that SCTP<br>
> actually IS TCP/IP<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: Actually I suggested
to specifiy ONE AND ONLY ONE
application layer<br>
> protocol,<br>
><br>
> No-one is questioning this as
far as I know. Isn't that precisely
what we<br>
> are trying to do?<br>
> Why are you augmenting this in
my comments?<br>
><br>
> [CV]: (see above) Maybe I did
not read your words sufficiently
thoroughly,<br>
> but I had the feeling that you
want to omit the specification of
the<br>
> protocol.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >[CV]: The API (i.e Network
Sensor) must be specified to run ONE
content<br>
> with ANY X3D Player.<br>
><br>
> Let's be careful here. The X3D
player does not necessarily need to
have<br>
> agency over the application
protocol. For example the X3Daemon
client<br>
> (sorry to bring it up) is
entirely separate from the player
other than for<br>
> interpreting ECMAScripts and
rendering the results to screen.
IOW, the<br>
> X3Daemon client can
theoretically run in any X3D player,
regardless of<br>
> internal multiuser coding, as
long as ECMAScript (JavaScript) is
supported.<br>
> This makes it very easy for
authors to script avatar and object
behaviors,<br>
> since it provides direct access
to X3D nodes. It is also a reason
why we<br>
> need to define a NetworkSensor
node as part of the X3D standard.<br>
> [CV]: That's exactly what I am
saying: you specified your X3Daemon
client<br>
> API, so a content that uses
that API, can theoretically run with
ANY X3D<br>
> Player (that the X3Daemon
client supports). If we specify a
general Network<br>
> Sensor API, then content can
run with any X3D Player that
supports the<br>
> Network Sensor API.<br>
> However, if I use the X3Daemon
Client API, then I MUST use the
X3Daemon<br>
> Server, because the protocol is
proprietary. If the protocol was
specified,<br>
> then I could use ANY server
with the X3Daemon Client. It's
similar with BS<br>
> Contact and BS Collaborate.<br>
> Most customers are very
sensitive about getting locked in.
No matter if<br>
> open source or closed source.
We (my employer) made this
experience with<br>
> railway operators, too.<br>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
> GL<br>
><br>
>
________________________________________________________<br>
> * * * Interactive Multimedia -
Internet Management * * *<br>
> * * Virtual Reality --
Application Programming * *<br>
> * 3D Net Productions
3dnetproductions.com[<a
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href="http://3dnetproductions.com"
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><br>
><br>
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