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<p>Note, you'll have to log into GitHub first. I would go to the
main github page to login, not somewhere I send you, because
there's credential stealing happening.<br>
</p>
On 8/31/21 12:30 AM, John Carlson wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f5552fa9-2ab6-44bc-7c4b-d28d6b985f24@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<p>Examples from Dr. Lee's work here (My private repo, NOT THE
MAIN X3D STANDARDS REPO. This repo may go away soon):</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-4%20V3.3%20WD/Part04/Examples"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-4%20V3.3%20WD/Part04/Examples</a></p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-3%20V3.3%20WD/Part03/Examples"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-3%20V3.3%20WD/Part03/Examples</a><br>
</p>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-5%20V3.3%20WD/Part05/Examples"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-5%20V3.3%20WD/Part05/Examples</a><br>
<p>(these do no include the .h files from the WD, go up a level
and look at abstracts.html and concretes.html)</p>
<p>I've used importer/exporters on one Java project. They weren't
perfect, thus I am looking for a preferred idea.</p>
<p>Please examine! Should we also discuss in a meeting with
someone taking notes?</p>
<p>I'm going to start examine the C WD a bit.<br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/30/21 11:51 PM, Brutzman, Donald
(Don) (CIV) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BY3PR13MB4884A35BE9D357523C02A976C4CC9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal">I expect that the majority of your points
below will be answered when we start looking at examples.
Much easier then to compare alternatives.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">v/r Don<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div
style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">John Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, August 30, 2021 9:48 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Myeong Won Lee</a>; <a
href="mailto:npolys@vt.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">
Nicholas Polys</a>; <a href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Richard F. Puk</a>; <a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"> x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] X3D meeting minutes 20
AUG 2021, C C++ C# and Mantis</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Agreed on developing setters and
getters for patterns previously discussed on the
subject. That is, we have setters provided for
construction (import) of an object passed to the
constructor. At that point, the object constructed by
should be encapsulated. Only methods passed an
exporter may extract data from the constructed object.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But OO may be a bit passé these
days? I don’t know how to achieve such a thing in the C
SAI, but I need to look. I was told by a patterns guy
that setters and getters were used for legacy
systems??? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The idea of the importer/exporter
pattern is to provide a class hierarchy of importers:
VRMLImporter, XMLImporter, JSONImporter,
GenericImporter and similarly, a class hierarchy for
Exporters. While building such classes by hand is
numbingly difficult, I feel with code generation from
X3DUOM, the task could be relatively easy. Again, I
have not done something like this in C.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Discussion and better solutions
appreciated!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Examples especially helpful!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, I know about JavaBeans and
POJOs.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m all for being overruled. Show me
something the achieves encapsulation better. I know
about accessType on fields. Is this how we design the
encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reference I would use for
Importer/exporter is “Holub on Patterns.”<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 10:54 PM
Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">brutzman@nps.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">John,
thanks for excellent progress. Apologies that I
was unable to meet today.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
think it is prudent for us to check in the
current master copy provided by Dr. Lee so that
we have a baseline. Any subsequent changes will
be discernible via diff comparisons.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Recommend
that we intentionally _<i>not</i>_ look at
Script nodes for a while. </p>
<ol type="a" start="1">
<li class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> First we have
to make sure that basic nodes (parent-children
relationships) and simple fields are
represented satisfactorily, with intuitive
accessors (get and set methods.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then look at
statements.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then look at
<field> definitions, usable by both
prototypes and scripts.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then
contained script code within a script node
(similarly for shader nodes).<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then simple
prototype declarations.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then
more-complex prototype declarations with
IS/connect and embedded Script nodes.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
have plenty of examples to work with. Going
from simplest towards more complex (a..f above)
will help us maintain clarity throughout.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Looking
forward to meeting sometime and pursuing next
steps.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">v/r
Don</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">John
Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, August 30, 2021 6:31 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Myeong
Won Lee</a>; <a
href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Richard
F. Puk</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Brutzman,
Donald (Don) (CIV)</a>; <a
href="mailto:npolys@vt.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Nicholas Polys</a>; <a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] X3D meeting
minutes 20 AUG 2021, C C++ C# and Mantis
MetadataDate</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Don
suggested a meeting for checking in the new
19777-{3,4,5} working drafts. If people
are interested, send me times when you are
available. Dick, Don, since you are the
maintainers, one of you should be there—I
think the Mantis currently says Don.
Myeong or I can make zips available. I
think they may be checked into my
repository.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
do not know if more review time is necessary
before checking in? I for one have not
done much reviewing beyond structure. One
may want to search through the folders to
see if the string “Java” is found within the
c/c++/c# working draft files. That is, do
an explorer and/or grep search.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">From
what I saw of the .h files, it looks quite
excellent. We can start with any code
generation. If Myeong doesn’t give us the
.h files and we can’t otherwise scrape the
HTML or WD, perhaps code generation of SAI
from X3DUOM is indicated? We have done
this for Python and Java. I don’t know if
Myeong is code generating the .h code or
not. I’ve laid out a couple of scenarios
for stylesheets, but I have not worked on
making these a reality yet. It would
probably be good for me to lay out the
alternatives in a presentation so we can
choose a path forward which is most
maintainable for second and third parties.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nicholas,
does your team intend to provide a full
library beyond the interface? If so, will
they be working on an implementation
stylesheet? I guess in C/C++ the interface
is separate from the implementation, so it
would be possible to have coordinated
implementation?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Could
someone who has used Script nodes with
c,c++,c# fill me in on how to do it?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">John</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 8:50 AM Myeong Won
Lee <<a
href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">myeongwonlee@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
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style="border:none;border-left:solid
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dear
John,<br>
<br>
Thank you for your efforts in
setting up the GitHub repository.<br>
<br>
In the folders, I think that the
"CD" folders may not be necessary
because we have restarted with WDs
and the CDs are old versions of the
WDs.<br>
I submitted the CDs last year, but
they were not approved as CD texts,
and so I resubmitted them as WDs.<br>
We should work on the WD texts.<br>
How about deleting the CD folders?<br>
In addition, if WD-originals are old
versions, it would be OK to delete
them.<br>
<br>
In summary, I think that the folders
should be as follows:<br>
<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-WD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-WD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-WD</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Sincerely,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Myeong</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 6:30 AM John
Carlson <<a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
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<div>
<p>Myeong,</p>
<p>Thanks for your efforts on the
C/C#/C++ standards!</p>
<p>My understanding from Don is
that we want the current WD
versions of the 19777-3, 19777-4
and 19777-5 standards checked
into GitHub, somewhere below
this folder: <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FWeb3DConsortium%2FX3D&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991840016%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=knYg5J%2FS98UehWbGirNdgLSHd4Jvcvlcwqpvlq81Oys%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D</a> (If you need assistance, let
me know, it's quite confusing.
We'll probably have to do things
like rename the folders once
unpacked from the zips and move
them from). Issues with the
standards should go into Mantis.
Google Drive/Docs, while
important for private sharing,
are not suitable for group
editing of standards. GitHub
has adequate protections in the
X3D repository. With your
permission, I will check your
Google shared zips into GitHub
unpacked. Probably in the
folders here that you identify:</p>
<p>./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-WD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-CD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-CD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-WD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-CD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-WD</p>
<p>( Please confirm that the WD
folders are correct).</p>
<p>These are the original folders
that where already there that
are moved out of the way.</p>
<p>./ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-WD-original<br>
./ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-WD-original<br>
./ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-WD-original</p>
<p>I currently all these changes
ready for a git add, commit,
push. I have done 1) ready and
a little bit of aiming. I need
approval to fire.</p>
<p>I will enter a Mantis ticket
for these changes.</p>
<p>===========================================================</p>
<p>Secondly, according to Don, we
need to move discussions to the
x3d-public mailing list. If
issues are sensitive, then
there's the x3d mailing list.
Here's how to subscribe to
x3d-public: <a
href="http://www.web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p>
<p>Issues with source code
artifacts should be can be
recorded here: <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fp%2Fx3d%2Fdiscussion%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991849986%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=tyJHTE6gp4JZXciuX8Qa4VSw4jedCabAnzug6ArR7qc%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/discussion/</a></p>
<p>Source code artifacts should go
here in addition: <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fp%2Fx3d%2Fcode%2FHEAD%2Ftree%2Fwww.web3d.org%2Fx3d%2Flanguages%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991849986%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=EMsac3BZDxkqddC2puA1cn797xspzZ1h7mxZWUk6p4U%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages/</a>
I can facilitate uploads to
there. Myeong, with your
permission, I will archive the
old code (many months old) to
"legacy" under the main x3d-code
folder.</p>
<p>If you have any open questions,
please post to the x3d-public
list (respond to this email).</p>
<p>I don't believe source code
changes require Mantis.</p>
<p>John</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
8/26/21 9:34 AM, Brutzman,
Donald (Don) (CIV) wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Again:
it would be useful to have
to have a design page that
discussed programming
patterns and open issues.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Again:
GitHub is master version,
being aware that differences
exist but are not identified
isn’t very useful.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Again:
Hoping we can “get on the
good foot” in how this
effort is pursued. This is
how the Java, JSON, Python
and Turtle language bindings
built towards consensus and
were all successfully
accomplished.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks
for all efforts, hopefully
they can become productive
and fruitful by working
deliberately together.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">all
the best, Don<br>
<span
style="font-family:"Courier
New"">-- <br>
Don Brutzman Naval
Postgraduate School, Code
USW/Br <a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
brutzman@nps.edu</a><br>
Watkins 270, MOVES
Institute, Monterey CA
93943-5000 USA
+1.831.656.2149<br>
X3D graphics, virtual
worlds, navy robotics <a
href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:
</b><a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">John
Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Friday,
August 20, 2021 12:36 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Brutzman,
Donald (Don) (CIV)</a>;
<a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>;
<a
href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
Myeong Won Lee</a>; <a
href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">GPU
Group</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re:
[x3d-public] X3D meeting
minutes 20 AUG 2021, C C++
C# and Mantis MetadataDate</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div style="border:solid
#004679 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt
2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:12.0pt;background:#004679"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:yellow">NPS WARNING: *external sender*
verify before acting.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<p>Don, Myeong, Doug,</p>
<p>I noticed that there are
no virtual methods in the
C++ spec SAI I got
(examples, yes, except for
~SAIExample5()) on <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991859939%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=H7KoA5KR1NhoNyZuaD3ss6WgNMCgMuXbPKXFkWKUceg%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
drive.google.com</a>. I
do not think they are
necessary, but may be
useful when defining
subclasses for people who
want to subclass from the
SAI abstract and concrete
nodes. <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.geeksforgeeks.org%2Fvirtual-function-cpp%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991859939%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Yf43CPlzZjd7dCEo%2Bbi01NMwzwux6W%2BB5QQvtN%2BV8cM%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/virtual-function-cpp/</a> Note that most
methods are virtual in
Java, without the
keyword. I think virtual
methods are slower than
regular methods, last I
heard. But I'm pretty
sure all destructors
should be virtual? I've
forgotten. Some discussion
whether destructors should
be present in the spec is
welcome. The virtual
destructor ensures that
the superclass destructor
is not called.</p>
<p>I think it would be
useful to have Doug Sanden
review the abstract and
concrete class and structs
before making big
decisions.</p>
<p>I am also unsure why the
first parameter to many C
function pointer
declarations is void*
instead of passing a
pointer to a struct type?</p>
<p>In all cases, C/C++/C# it
might be useful for setter
functions and members to
return this or *this,
instead of void. We need
set functions to return
this for creating builders
I'm fairly sure. (In C
SAI, the first parameter
is called this, it's not a
keyword that I know of).</p>
<p>I'm glad I am reviewing
this! We'll see if
anything else pops into my
head after I send the
message!</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>John</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
8/20/21 1:46 PM,
Brutzman, Donald (Don)
(CIV) wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Attendees
John Carlson, Vince
Marchetti, Dick Puk, Don
Brutzman</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p
style="margin-left:.25in">1.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Very useful
discussion today, we
reviewed proposed
language bindings</p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo2"> 19755-
3, C<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo2"> 19755-
4, C++<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo2"> 19755-
5, C#<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
discussed whether
special treatment is
deserved for exposing
these draft
specifications. 22
Web3D members have
access to them now.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Language
bindings need compilable
interfaces for ISO, and
at least two
implementations for
Web3D.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Close
inspection of each shows
that a handful of
example programs are
available for test
development, and could
be used as basis for
X3dToCCppCsharp.xslt
conversion stylesheet.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Close
inspection of detailed
abstract interfaces, and
detailed node/statement
implementations for
libraries are available
(with some omissions).
Each appears quite
similar to the others.
Regeneration via X3DUOM
of compilable “header”
or interface files
matching the source code
in the HTML is possible.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">C
and C++ language
compilation is easily
possible using gcc
compiler. Compilation
of C# is not so clear,
some open-source
implementations are
available. Once initial
compilation of headers
is accomplished, further
scrutiny and possible
evolution of design
patterns would be
straightforward. We’ll
use gcc on the next
round since it is part
of our build
infrastructure already.</p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"> GCC, the
GNU Compiler
Collection <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgcc.gnu.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991869895%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=0oGTDshBBVtMPtuLqa%2F4Gfnhe2H2oPC8b%2BGg26%2F%2BuQg%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://gcc.gnu.org</a>
<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"> <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstackoverflow.com%2Fquestions%2F26078437%2Fwhy-does-gcc-support-java-and-not-c-sharp&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991869895%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=skNdk%2FZhWnvHUXUQkMj2N6By1Ug2sDhI%2BL0%2BOufPDLg%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26078437/why-does-gcc-support-java-and-not-c-sharp</a>
<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
have enough that
immediate sharing of
shared specifications
can be deferred until
broader discussion is
warranted. Sharing of
generated code will
help, and that does not
have to be restricted.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
are concerned about
personnel availability,
but will keep working on
it step by step.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
We will welcome all help
and participation as the
work proceeds.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p
style="margin-left:.25in">2.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Mantis issue
progress is persevering
steadily each week.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in">1.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Mantis 1218 for
creating a MetadataDate
or MetadataTime node
needs to be deferred to
X3D4.1. Meanwhile we
might an example scene
demonstrating how to do
such representations
with existing nodes,
workably across all
forms of X3D. E.g.
pseudocode examples:</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><MetadataDouble
name=”time”
value=“0.0”
reference=”Unix
reference of time with
start at 1 JAN
1970”/></p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><MetadataString
name=”TuesdayLunch”
value=“24-AUG-2021-1200-pacific”
reference=”XSD, XML
Schema Definition”/>
<MetadataString
name=”ThankGoodnessItsMonday”
value=“23-AUG-2021-1200-pacific” reference=”ISO 8601 Time standard”/>
</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in">Any
scene of examples would
be fully detailed and
cross-referenced for
clarity.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;background:#F3F3F3">Mantis
1218: 07.2.4
MetadataDate - New
node type, or new data
type</span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><a
href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1218"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1218</a>
</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"> </p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in">2.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Other mantis
issues are being fixed
and addresses each
week. Membership has
value.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><a
href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php</a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks
everyone for a worthy
effort today. Have fun
with X3D! 8)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
Brutzman, Donald
(Don) (CIV) <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday,
August 20, 2021
12:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">x3d-public@web3d.org</span></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Brutzman,
Donald (Don) (CIV) <a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"> <span
style="color:#0563C1"><brutzman@nps.edu></span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> X3D
meeting agenda 20
AUG 2021, C C++ C#
and Mantis</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Regular
weekly call once again
this week, Friday
10-1100 Pacific on Web3D
conference line.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
will review our approach
to C C++ C# encodings
and also ongoing Mantis
progress. Additional
topics welcome.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">all
the best, Don</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Don
Brutzman Naval
Postgraduate School,
Code USW/Br <a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">brutzman@nps.edu</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Watkins
270, MOVES Institute,
Monterey CA 93943-5000
USA +1.831.656.2149</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">X3D
graphics, virtual
worlds, navy robotics <a
href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>x3d-public mailing list</pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<pre style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br
clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4.8pt;line-height:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Myeong
Won Lee, PhD, Professor<br>
Faculty of Computer Science, U. of Suwon <br>
Hwaseong, Gyeonggi-do, 18323 Korea <br>
E-mail) <a
href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">myeongwonlee@gmail.com</a>,
<a href="mailto:mwlee@suwon.ac.kr"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mwlee@suwon.ac.kr</a></span></p>
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