<html>
<head>
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charset=windows-1252">
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<p>Note: I'm more used to Chrome behavior, getting used to Firefox.<br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/31/21 12:37 AM, John Carlson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:9f56a0b7-1478-af36-f4f1-87f9f07b5a6e@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<p>Note, you'll have to log into GitHub first. I would go to the
main github page to login, not somewhere I send you, because
there's credential stealing happening.<br>
</p>
On 8/31/21 12:30 AM, John Carlson wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f5552fa9-2ab6-44bc-7c4b-d28d6b985f24@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<p>Examples from Dr. Lee's work here (My private repo, NOT THE
MAIN X3D STANDARDS REPO. This repo may go away soon):</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-4%20V3.3%20WD/Part04/Examples"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-4%20V3.3%20WD/Part04/Examples</a></p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-3%20V3.3%20WD/Part03/Examples"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-3%20V3.3%20WD/Part03/Examples</a><br>
</p>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-5%20V3.3%20WD/Part05/Examples"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/coderextreme/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-5%20V3.3%20WD/Part05/Examples</a><br>
<p>(these do no include the .h files from the WD, go up a level
and look at abstracts.html and concretes.html)</p>
<p>I've used importer/exporters on one Java project. They
weren't perfect, thus I am looking for a preferred idea.</p>
<p>Please examine! Should we also discuss in a meeting with
someone taking notes?</p>
<p>I'm going to start examine the C WD a bit.<br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/30/21 11:51 PM, Brutzman,
Donald (Don) (CIV) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BY3PR13MB4884A35BE9D357523C02A976C4CC9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal">I expect that the majority of your
points below will be answered when we start looking at
examples. Much easier then to compare alternatives.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">v/r Don<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div
style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">John Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, August 30, 2021 9:48 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Myeong Won Lee</a>; <a
href="mailto:npolys@vt.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">
Nicholas Polys</a>; <a
href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Richard
F. Puk</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"> x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] X3D meeting minutes 20
AUG 2021, C C++ C# and Mantis</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Agreed on developing setters and
getters for patterns previously discussed on the
subject. That is, we have setters provided for
construction (import) of an object passed to the
constructor. At that point, the object constructed
by should be encapsulated. Only methods passed an
exporter may extract data from the constructed object.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But OO may be a bit passé these
days? I don’t know how to achieve such a thing in the
C SAI, but I need to look. I was told by a patterns
guy that setters and getters were used for legacy
systems??? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The idea of the importer/exporter
pattern is to provide a class hierarchy of importers:
VRMLImporter, XMLImporter, JSONImporter,
GenericImporter and similarly, a class hierarchy for
Exporters. While building such classes by hand is
numbingly difficult, I feel with code generation from
X3DUOM, the task could be relatively easy. Again, I
have not done something like this in C.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Discussion and better solutions
appreciated!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Examples especially helpful!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, I know about JavaBeans and
POJOs.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m all for being overruled. Show
me something the achieves encapsulation better. I
know about accessType on fields. Is this how we
design the encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reference I would use for
Importer/exporter is “Holub on Patterns.”<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 10:54
PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">brutzman@nps.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">John,
thanks for excellent progress. Apologies that
I was unable to meet today.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
think it is prudent for us to check in the
current master copy provided by Dr. Lee so
that we have a baseline. Any subsequent
changes will be discernible via diff
comparisons.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Recommend
that we intentionally _<i>not</i>_ look at
Script nodes for a while. </p>
<ol type="a" start="1">
<li
class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> First we
have to make sure that basic nodes
(parent-children relationships) and simple
fields are represented satisfactorily, with
intuitive accessors (get and set methods.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li
class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then look
at statements.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li
class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then look
at <field> definitions, usable by both
prototypes and scripts.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li
class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then
contained script code within a script node
(similarly for shader nodes).<o:p></o:p></li>
<li
class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then simple
prototype declarations.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li
class="m7649055059744266865msolistparagraph"
style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"> Then
more-complex prototype declarations with
IS/connect and embedded Script nodes.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
have plenty of examples to work with. Going
from simplest towards more complex (a..f
above) will help us maintain clarity
throughout.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Looking
forward to meeting sometime and pursuing next
steps.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">v/r
Don</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">John
Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, August 30, 2021 6:31
PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Myeong
Won Lee</a>; <a
href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Richard
F. Puk</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Brutzman,
Donald (Don) (CIV)</a>; <a
href="mailto:npolys@vt.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Nicholas
Polys</a>; <a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] X3D
meeting minutes 20 AUG 2021, C C++ C# and
Mantis MetadataDate</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Don
suggested a meeting for checking in the
new 19777-{3,4,5} working drafts. If
people are interested, send me times when
you are available. Dick, Don, since you
are the maintainers, one of you should be
there—I think the Mantis currently says
Don. Myeong or I can make zips
available. I think they may be checked
into my repository.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
do not know if more review time is
necessary before checking in? I for one
have not done much reviewing beyond
structure. One may want to search
through the folders to see if the string
“Java” is found within the c/c++/c#
working draft files. That is, do an
explorer and/or grep search.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">From
what I saw of the .h files, it looks quite
excellent. We can start with any code
generation. If Myeong doesn’t give us
the .h files and we can’t otherwise scrape
the HTML or WD, perhaps code generation of
SAI from X3DUOM is indicated? We have
done this for Python and Java. I don’t
know if Myeong is code generating the .h
code or not. I’ve laid out a couple of
scenarios for stylesheets, but I have not
worked on making these a reality yet. It
would probably be good for me to lay out
the alternatives in a presentation so we
can choose a path forward which is most
maintainable for second and third parties.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nicholas,
does your team intend to provide a full
library beyond the interface? If so,
will they be working on an implementation
stylesheet? I guess in C/C++ the
interface is separate from the
implementation, so it would be possible to
have coordinated implementation?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Could
someone who has used Script nodes with
c,c++,c# fill me in on how to do it?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">John</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 8:50 AM Myeong
Won Lee <<a
href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">myeongwonlee@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dear
John,<br>
<br>
Thank you for your efforts in
setting up the GitHub repository.<br>
<br>
In the folders, I think that the
"CD" folders may not be necessary
because we have restarted with WDs
and the CDs are old versions of
the WDs.<br>
I submitted the CDs last year, but
they were not approved as CD
texts, and so I resubmitted them
as WDs.<br>
We should work on the WD texts.<br>
How about deleting the CD folders?<br>
In addition, if WD-originals are
old versions, it would be OK to
delete them.<br>
<br>
In summary, I think that the
folders should be as follows:<br>
<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-WD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-WD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-WD</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Sincerely,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Myeong</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 6:30 AM
John Carlson <<a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>Myeong,</p>
<p>Thanks for your efforts on
the C/C#/C++ standards!</p>
<p>My understanding from Don is
that we want the current WD
versions of the 19777-3,
19777-4 and 19777-5 standards
checked into GitHub, somewhere
below this folder: <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FWeb3DConsortium%2FX3D&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991840016%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=knYg5J%2FS98UehWbGirNdgLSHd4Jvcvlcwqpvlq81Oys%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D</a> (If you need assistance, let
me know, it's quite
confusing. We'll probably
have to do things like rename
the folders once unpacked from
the zips and move them from).
Issues with the standards
should go into Mantis. Google
Drive/Docs, while important
for private sharing, are not
suitable for group editing of
standards. GitHub has
adequate protections in the
X3D repository. With your
permission, I will check your
Google shared zips into GitHub
unpacked. Probably in the
folders here that you
identify:</p>
<p>./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-WD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-CD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-CD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-WD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-CD<br>
./ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-WD</p>
<p>( Please confirm that the WD
folders are correct).</p>
<p>These are the original
folders that where already
there that are moved out of
the way.</p>
<p>./ISO-IEC19777-4/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-WD-original<br>
./ISO-IEC19777-3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-WD-original<br>
./ISO-IEC19777-5/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-WD-original</p>
<p>I currently all these changes
ready for a git add, commit,
push. I have done 1) ready
and a little bit of aiming. I
need approval to fire.</p>
<p>I will enter a Mantis ticket
for these changes.</p>
<p>===========================================================</p>
<p>Secondly, according to Don,
we need to move discussions to
the x3d-public mailing list.
If issues are sensitive, then
there's the x3d mailing list.
Here's how to subscribe to
x3d-public: <a
href="http://www.web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://www.web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p>
<p>Issues with source code
artifacts should be can be
recorded here: <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fp%2Fx3d%2Fdiscussion%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991849986%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=tyJHTE6gp4JZXciuX8Qa4VSw4jedCabAnzug6ArR7qc%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/discussion/</a></p>
<p>Source code artifacts should
go here in addition: <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fp%2Fx3d%2Fcode%2FHEAD%2Ftree%2Fwww.web3d.org%2Fx3d%2Flanguages%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991849986%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=EMsac3BZDxkqddC2puA1cn797xspzZ1h7mxZWUk6p4U%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages/</a>
I can facilitate uploads to
there. Myeong, with your
permission, I will archive the
old code (many months old) to
"legacy" under the main
x3d-code folder.</p>
<p>If you have any open
questions, please post to the
x3d-public list (respond to
this email).</p>
<p>I don't believe source code
changes require Mantis.</p>
<p>John</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
8/26/21 9:34 AM, Brutzman,
Donald (Don) (CIV) wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Again:
it would be useful to have
to have a design page that
discussed programming
patterns and open issues.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Again:
GitHub is master version,
being aware that
differences exist but are
not identified isn’t very
useful.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Again:
Hoping we can “get on the
good foot” in how this
effort is pursued. This
is how the Java, JSON,
Python and Turtle language
bindings built towards
consensus and were all
successfully accomplished.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks
for all efforts, hopefully
they can become productive
and fruitful by working
deliberately together.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">all
the best, Don<br>
<span
style="font-family:"Courier
New"">-- <br>
Don Brutzman Naval
Postgraduate School,
Code USW/Br <a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
brutzman@nps.edu</a><br>
Watkins 270, MOVES
Institute, Monterey CA
93943-5000 USA
+1.831.656.2149<br>
X3D graphics, virtual
worlds, navy robotics <a
href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:
</b><a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">John
Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Friday,
August 20, 2021 12:36 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Brutzman,
Donald (Don) (CIV)</a>;
<a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>;
<a
href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
Myeong Won Lee</a>; <a
href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">GPU
Group</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re:
[x3d-public] X3D meeting
minutes 20 AUG 2021, C
C++ C# and Mantis
MetadataDate</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div style="border:solid
#004679
1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt
2.0pt 2.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:12.0pt;background:#004679"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:yellow">NPS WARNING: *external sender*
verify before acting.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<p>Don, Myeong, Doug,</p>
<p>I noticed that there
are no virtual methods
in the C++ spec SAI I
got (examples, yes,
except for
~SAIExample5()) on <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991859939%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=H7KoA5KR1NhoNyZuaD3ss6WgNMCgMuXbPKXFkWKUceg%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
drive.google.com</a>.
I do not think they are
necessary, but may be
useful when defining
subclasses for people
who want to subclass
from the SAI abstract
and concrete nodes. <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.geeksforgeeks.org%2Fvirtual-function-cpp%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991859939%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Yf43CPlzZjd7dCEo%2Bbi01NMwzwux6W%2BB5QQvtN%2BV8cM%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/virtual-function-cpp/</a> Note that most
methods are virtual in
Java, without the
keyword. I think
virtual methods are
slower than regular
methods, last I heard.
But I'm pretty sure all
destructors should be
virtual? I've
forgotten. Some
discussion whether
destructors should be
present in the spec is
welcome. The virtual
destructor ensures that
the superclass
destructor is not
called.</p>
<p>I think it would be
useful to have Doug
Sanden review the
abstract and concrete
class and structs before
making big decisions.</p>
<p>I am also unsure why
the first parameter to
many C function pointer
declarations is void*
instead of passing a
pointer to a struct
type?</p>
<p>In all cases, C/C++/C#
it might be useful for
setter functions and
members to return this
or *this, instead of
void. We need set
functions to return this
for creating builders
I'm fairly sure. (In C
SAI, the first parameter
is called this, it's not
a keyword that I know
of).</p>
<p>I'm glad I am reviewing
this! We'll see if
anything else pops into
my head after I send the
message!</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>John</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
8/20/21 1:46 PM,
Brutzman, Donald (Don)
(CIV) wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Attendees
John Carlson, Vince
Marchetti, Dick Puk,
Don Brutzman</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p
style="margin-left:.25in">1.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Very useful
discussion today, we
reviewed proposed
language bindings</p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo2"> 19755-
3, C<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo2"> 19755-
4, C++<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo2"> 19755-
5, C#<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
discussed whether
special treatment is
deserved for exposing
these draft
specifications. 22
Web3D members have
access to them now.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Language
bindings need
compilable interfaces
for ISO, and at least
two implementations
for Web3D.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Close
inspection of each
shows that a handful
of example programs
are available for test
development, and could
be used as basis for
X3dToCCppCsharp.xslt
conversion stylesheet.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Close
inspection of detailed
abstract interfaces,
and detailed
node/statement
implementations for
libraries are
available (with some
omissions). Each
appears quite similar
to the others.
Regeneration via
X3DUOM of compilable
“header” or interface
files matching the
source code in the
HTML is possible.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">C
and C++ language
compilation is easily
possible using gcc
compiler. Compilation
of C# is not so clear,
some open-source
implementations are
available. Once
initial compilation of
headers is
accomplished, further
scrutiny and possible
evolution of design
patterns would be
straightforward.
We’ll use gcc on the
next round since it is
part of our build
infrastructure
already.</p>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"> GCC,
the GNU Compiler
Collection <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgcc.gnu.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991869895%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=0oGTDshBBVtMPtuLqa%2F4Gfnhe2H2oPC8b%2BGg26%2F%2BuQg%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://gcc.gnu.org</a> <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"> <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstackoverflow.com%2Fquestions%2F26078437%2Fwhy-does-gcc-support-java-and-not-c-sharp&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C95c6f67a2e7f4b8a26d208d96c3a566f%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637659820991869895%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=skNdk%2FZhWnvHUXUQkMj2N6By1Ug2sDhI%2BL0%2BOufPDLg%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26078437/why-does-gcc-support-java-and-not-c-sharp</a>
<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
have enough that
immediate sharing of
shared specifications
can be deferred until
broader discussion is
warranted. Sharing of
generated code will
help, and that does
not have to be
restricted.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
are concerned about
personnel
availability, but will
keep working on it
step by step.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
We will welcome all
help and participation
as the work proceeds.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p
style="margin-left:.25in">2.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Mantis issue
progress is
persevering steadily
each week.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in">1.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Mantis 1218 for
creating a
MetadataDate or
MetadataTime node
needs to be deferred
to X3D4.1. Meanwhile
we might an example
scene demonstrating
how to do such
representations with
existing nodes,
workably across all
forms of X3D. E.g.
pseudocode examples:</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><MetadataDouble
name=”time”
value=“0.0”
reference=”Unix
reference of time with
start at 1 JAN
1970”/></p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><MetadataString
name=”TuesdayLunch”
value=“24-AUG-2021-1200-pacific” reference=”XSD, XML Schema
Definition”/>
<MetadataString
name=”ThankGoodnessItsMonday”
value=“23-AUG-2021-1200-pacific” reference=”ISO 8601 Time standard”/>
</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in">Any
scene of examples
would be fully
detailed and
cross-referenced for
clarity.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;background:#F3F3F3">Mantis
1218: 07.2.4
MetadataDate - New
node type, or new
data type</span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><a
href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1218"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1218</a>
</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"> </p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in">2.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span>Other mantis
issues are being fixed
and addresses each
week. Membership has
value.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:.75in"><a
href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php</a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks
everyone for a worthy
effort today. Have
fun with X3D! 8)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
Brutzman, Donald
(Don) (CIV) <br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Friday, August 20,
2021 12:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">x3d-public@web3d.org</span></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b>
Brutzman, Donald
(Don) (CIV) <a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"> <span style="color:#0563C1"><brutzman@nps.edu></span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
X3D meeting agenda
20 AUG 2021, C C++
C# and Mantis</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Regular
weekly call once again
this week, Friday
10-1100 Pacific on
Web3D conference line.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We
will review our
approach to C C++ C#
encodings and also
ongoing Mantis
progress. Additional
topics welcome.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">all
the best, Don</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Don
Brutzman Naval
Postgraduate School,
Code USW/Br <a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">brutzman@nps.edu</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Watkins
270, MOVES Institute,
Monterey CA 93943-5000
USA +1.831.656.2149</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">X3D
graphics, virtual
worlds, navy robotics
<a
href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>x3d-public mailing list</pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<pre style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br
clear="all">
</p>
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style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Myeong
Won Lee, PhD, Professor<br>
Faculty of Computer Science, U. of Suwon <br>
Hwaseong, Gyeonggi-do, 18323 Korea <br>
E-mail) <a
href="mailto:myeongwonlee@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">myeongwonlee@gmail.com</a>,
<a href="mailto:mwlee@suwon.ac.kr"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mwlee@suwon.ac.kr</a></span></p>
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