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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi, Vince –<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Good job. Works for me!<o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-12.75pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Dick<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal>/******************************************<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>| Richard F. Puk, Ph.D., President<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>| Intelligraphics Incorporated<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>| 7644 Cortina Court<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>| Carlsbad, CA 92009-8206<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>| Tel: +1-760-753-9027 Mobile: +1-760-809-9027<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>| Email: <a href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>puk@igraphics.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>\****************************************** <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>vmarchetti@kshell.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 1, 2021 9:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> X3D-Public <x3d-public@web3d.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] Spec problem with 3D texture axes: wrong-handed coordinate system<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The latest version of the figure, incorporating these changes :<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=1280 height=905 style='width:13.3333in;height:9.427in' id=FDC4EEE4-821C-4913-BCAA-3D1387C81380 src="cid:image001.png@01D79F91.37D68940"><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Aug 31, 2021, at 2:19 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dick and I reviewed this closely and said the following in Mantis 978:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=978">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=978</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Possible changes to figure:<br><br>a. Need coordinates indicated for R axis,<br>b. Might omit R=0 and R=1/2 (as shown in existing specification),<br><br>Possible changes to prose:<br><br>c. (s,t,r) should be ordered as (r,s,t), or<br>d. Likely should use (u,v,w) instead to match common convention as shown in<br> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVW_mapping">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVW_mapping</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>(UVW mapping) or<br> we informally found in OpenGL specification.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Recommend amending figure lower-case u,v,w – again thanks Vince.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>all the best, Don<br><span style='font-family:"Courier New",serif'>--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a><br>Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<br>X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman">http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b><a href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com">vmarchetti@kshell.com</a><br><b>Sent:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Monday, August 30, 2021 10:07 AM<br><b>To:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D-Public</a><br><b>Cc:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)</a>;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:npolys@vt.edu">Nicholas Polys</a>;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com">Richard F. Puk</a><br><b>Subject:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Re: [x3d-public] Spec problem with 3D texture axes: wrong-handed coordinate system<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='border:solid #004679 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:12.0pt;background:#004679'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:yellow'>NPS WARNING: *external sender* verify before acting.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dick<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>At this time I am about 66% confident that the figure I sent on Aug 27 is correct.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-- for the figure, as in the original, ignore the 2 cross sections on the left that have no relevance to handedness.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The original figure, with it's assignment of coordinates (1 0 0) as a point on the S axis, and (0 1 0) as a point on the T axis ; and the text<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>which considers (s t r ) as being a coordinate tuple, it appears the intent is the S T R can be considered renaming of X Y Z axes:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>X --> S<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Y --> T<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Z --> R<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If I cross out the S T R labels from the figure , and scribble in X Y Z accordingly, the figure I drew appears right handed.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Another way to "look" : If S T R is intended to be a right-handed system. then , by cyclic rearrangement of axes, so is T-R-S and viewed in this order, the figure I submitted (still) looks right-handed.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Vince<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Aug 30, 2021, at 12:09 PM, <<a href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com">puk@igraphics.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com">puk@igraphics.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi –<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It still look left-handed to me :^( I suggest exchanging the S and T labels and coordinates leaving the R label and coordinates where they are.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoListParagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:23.25pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>·</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span>Dick<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/******************************************<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>| Richard F. Puk, Ph.D., President<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>| Intelligraphics Incorporated<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>| 7644 Cortina Court<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>| Carlsbad, CA 92009-8206<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>| Tel: +1-760-753-9027 Mobile: +1-760-809-9027<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>| Email: <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>puk@igraphics.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>\******************************************<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"><span style='color:#954F72'>brutzman@nps.edu</span></a>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Sunday, August 29, 2021 11:50 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com"><span style='color:#954F72'>vmarchetti@kshell.com</span></a>; Richard F. Puk <<a href="mailto:puk@igraphics.com"><span style='color:#954F72'>puk@igraphics.com</span></a>>; 'Nicholas Polys' <<a href="mailto:npolys@vt.edu"><span style='color:#954F72'>npolys@vt.edu</span></a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>John Carlson <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><span style='color:#954F72'>x3d-public@web3d.org</span></a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>RE: [x3d-public] Spec problem with 3D texture axes: wrong-handed coordinate system<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Looks outstanding to me, we will review. Thanks Vince.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>p.s. if you created an X3D model to produce this, am happy to check it into version control We have a section in the X3D archives for specification figures.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>all the best, Don<br><span style='font-family:"Courier New",serif'>--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"><span style='color:#954F72'>brutzman@nps.edu</span></a><br>Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<br>X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman"><span style='font-family:"Courier New",serif;color:#954F72'>http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b><a href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com"><span style='color:#954F72'>vmarchetti@kshell.com</span></a><br><b>Sent:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Saturday, August 28, 2021 8:04 AM<br><b>To:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><span style='color:#954F72'>X3D-Public</span></a><br><b>Subject:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Re: [x3d-public] Spec problem with 3D texture axes: wrong-handed coordinate system<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Attached is a revised Figure 33.1 for the X3D V4 specification under review.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This version of the figure was corrected to accurately match the description of the R S T coordinate axes as described in Sections 33.2.2 and 33.2.3 of <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/texture3D.html#f-3DTexture"><span style='color:#954F72'>https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/texture3D.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Vince Marchetti<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><image001.png><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Aug 27, 2021, at 9:58 PM,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com"><span style='color:#954F72'>vmarchetti@kshell.com</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Upon evaluation, this figure attached to the Aug 27 email is inconsistent with the specification text Section 33.2.3<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>A corrected figure is forthcoming.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Vince Marchetti<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Aug 27, 2021, at 3:54 PM,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com"><span style='color:#954F72'>vmarchetti@kshell.com</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Please evaluate whether attached figure meets needs of X3DV4 specification document<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>SVG (via Inkscape) format available upon request<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Vince Marchetti<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><x3dV4_Fig33_1.png><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Aug 27, 2021, at 1:47 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"><span style='color:#954F72'>brutzman@nps.edu</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>As noted in Mantis 978,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=978"><span style='color:#954F72'>https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=978</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The following figure shows a left-handed coordinate system.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/texture3D.html#f-3DTexture"><span style='color:#954F72'>https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/texture3D.html#f-3DTexture</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><54CB4E59BAA24518B7648236A2468E3C.png><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Wondering how to fix – swap 2 axes can work. Perhaps there is a commonly used diagram in OpenGL (or elsewhere) we might adopt and adapt?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Any volunteers to do this (pretty please) to improve X3D4 specification?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>all the best, Don<br><span style='font-family:"Courier New",serif'>--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"><span style='font-family:"Courier New",serif;color:#954F72'>brutzman@nps.edu</span></a><span style='font-family:"Courier New",serif'><br>Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<br>X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman"><span style='font-family:"Courier New",serif;color:#954F72'>http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco'>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#954F72'>x3d-public@web3d.org</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco'><br></span><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#954F72'>http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><span style='color:#954F72'>x3d-public@web3d.org</span></a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"><span style='color:#954F72'>http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><span style='color:#954F72'>x3d-public@web3d.org</span></a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"><span style='color:#954F72'>http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>