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<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>we had a short discussion with Don about the transformation of
different XMP nodes and attributes to RDF. A general idea is to
have an overview of the XMP specification available at:</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/xmp/pdfs/XMP%20SDK%20Release%20cc-2016-08/XMPSpecificationPart1.pdf">https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/xmp/pdfs/XMP%20SDK%20Release%20cc-2016-08/XMPSpecificationPart1.pdf</a></p>
<p>and determine groups of XMP nodes and attributes that would
require different transformation to RDF nodes and attributes. In
such a case, we could have a pretty uniform approach to various
metadata entities, while maintaining possibility to extend the
transformation with new nodes and attributes.</p>
<p>Best regards<br>
Jakub<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">W dniu 19.11.2021 o 11:03, Brutzman,
Donald (Don) (CIV) pisze:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BY3PR13MB4884D9E4E1B4D9657F072DB3C49C9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">We had a useful discussion about xml:lang
in Thursday weekly CAD DPS call, had similar thinking going
on.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I will be confirming with Jakub next week
(using our XMP test model) whether <MetatadaString
name=”xml:lang” value=”EN”/> is always preferable to
attribute xml:lang=’EN’ because it is portable across all
varieties of X3D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Whether or not to include attribute
xml:lang=’EN’ in DOCTYPE/Schema: either add it everywhere
since it is legal XML, or else not at all so that validation
warnings are indeed thrown (since it is likely not the
recommended approach).<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">all the best, Don<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">-- <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code
USW/Br <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA
93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
https://</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John Carlson
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 17, 2021 5:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"><brutzman@nps.edu></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com">vmarchetti@kshell.com</a>; X3D-Public
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a>; Jakub Flotyński
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:flotynski@kti.ue.poznan.pl"><flotynski@kti.ue.poznan.pl></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] xml:lang language
identification<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I suggest getting xml:lang into X3DUOM
before JSON Schema, but we can do some hard coding into the
schema generator if pretesting is desired. An example JSON
schema snippet would be required.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Also consider “subclassing” xml:lang
for our own purposes, including supporting locales in
MFStrings perhaps.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I think
full testing of existing JSON schema in python,Java, and
JavaScript would be desired before proceeding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Nov
17, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
<<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">brutzman@nps.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for review comments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree that using MetadataString
for xml:lang definitions is a good approach for
portable X3D mappings within MetadataSet collections.
Indeed that was the original approach we tried in the
XMP mapping. Further scrutiny will be needed to see
if it can support multiple xml:lang definitions for a
given value, that might be a separate design pattern.
Jakub and I will continue to look closely at this.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Meanwhile, the xml:lang attribute
is allowed by XML. Thus am still looking to add it to
X3D XML Schema and DOCTYPE (and possibly X3D JSON
schema) as an attribute allowed during XML validation,
at least for the handful of X3D use cases where it
might make sense. Flagging presence of xml:lang
values as erroneous would be a “false negative,”
meaning an incorrect error diagnostic.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">all the best, Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">-- </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate
School, Code USW/Br
<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">brutzman@nps.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey
CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy
robotics https://</span>
<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> x3d-public <<a
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Carlson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 17, 2021 6:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">vmarchetti@kshell.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> X3D-Public <<a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] xml:lang language
identification<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, Vince. That’s pretty much
what I wanted to say. I don’t know if schemas can
apply xml:lang to an attribute in all XML documents
guided by the schema. I don’t think that would make
sense. I am not arguing a position, because I have
not studied.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve had problems with namespaced
attribute names in the past. I suggest we go
through a thorough test after any updates to X3DUOM.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On
Nov 16, 2021, at 6:24 PM, <a
href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
vmarchetti@kshell.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 16, 2021, at
6:00 PM, Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">brutzman@nps.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">XML allows
identification of language via the
reserved xml:lang attribute on any
attribute.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo3">
XML Recommendation, fifth edition, W3C,
section2.12 Language Identification<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo3">
<a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FREC-xml%2F%23sec-lang-tag&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cf00b9ee0286d48ac185b08d9aa36d5e5%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637727974775285410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=5LMyZFoPQ4PUc356h2V2a0%2BSF2bH2ZiYrcsBz5wCOI4%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-lang-tag</span></a><o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l4
level1 lfo6">
W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD)
1.1 Part 2: Datatypes, W3C
Recommendation 5 April 2012 section
3.4.3 language<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l4
level1 lfo6">
<a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fxmlschema11-2%2F%23language&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cf00b9ee0286d48ac185b08d9aa36d5e5%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637727974775285410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=hgGRY7kcWRLqBp0dH%2FjaABaGMZoC%2B8kHxdHP3cxUnoo%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#language</span></a><o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">These excerpts from the
XML documents assert that the xml:lang
attribute is not as granular as applying to
individual attributes, but applies at<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">the XML element level,
and so to all the attributes and subelements
, with some clear rules for overriding the
xml:lang attribute in sub-elements.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">With that in mind, I
think that the function of the xml:lang
attribute can, in the X3D abstract
specification, be performed by a
MetadataString node which can be applied to
any X3D node, including<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">other Metadata nodes. The
advantage of this approach would be that the
language attribution can be readily
transferred between different encodings of
the same X3D content.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Today while working
on XMP metadata transcription from
RDF/XML (or TTL) form into X3D/XML form,
Jakub and I found that we needed to
utilize xml:lang attribute for lossless
two-way conversion.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I can think of the
following X3D elements that might need
to indicate which identification of
human language might be appropriate:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo9">
Text node (corresponding to ‘string’
field)<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo9">
MetadataString<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo9">
<field> and <fieldValue>
declarations, if type is
SFString/MFString<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Conceivably we might
also permit this whenever a description
field is present also (Viewpoint,
sensors, etc.).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Not looking to change
X3D expressive power but think that
xml:lang information ought to be
permissible in X3D XML encoding since it
is an allowed part of XML.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thus am planning to
add xml:lang as indicated above in the
X3D XML Schema and X3D XML DOCTYPE to
avoid incorrect, misleading validation
errors.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Any other
considerations appropriate? Will enter
Mantis issue when ready to proceed. All
comments welcome.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">all the best, Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">--<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">Don Brutzman Naval
Postgraduate School, Code
USW/Br <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">brutzman@nps.edu</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">Watkins 270, MOVES
Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000
USA +1.831.656.2149</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">X3D graphics, virtual
worlds, navy robotics https://</span><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a
href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco">_______________________________________________<br>
x3d-public mailing list<br>
</span><a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco;color:#0563C1">x3d-public@web3d.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco"><br>
</span><a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
x3d-public mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
<a
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
dr inż. Jakub Flotyński, prof. UEP
Katedra Technologii Informacyjnych
Uniwersytet Ekonomiczny w Poznaniu
Department of Information Technology
Poznań University of Economics and Business
al. Niepodległości 10, 61-875 Poznań
tel./fax: (+48)(61)639-2758
e-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:flotynski@kti.ue.poznan.pl">flotynski@kti.ue.poznan.pl</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.kti.ue.poznan.pl/flotynski">http://www.kti.ue.poznan.pl/flotynski</a></pre>
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Nadawcą korespondencji i jednocześnie administratorem Państwa danych osobowych jest Uniwersytet Ekonomiczny w Poznaniu,
al. Niepodległości 10, 61-875 Poznań, z którym można skontaktować się listownie lub poprzez wiadomość e-mail (<a href="mailto:rodo@ue.poznan.pl">rodo@ue.poznan.pl</a>).
Państwa dane osobowe przetwarzane będą w celu prowadzenia niniejszej korespondencji i przez czas jej trwania.
Przysługuje Państwu prawo dostępu do danych, ich sprostowania, ograniczenia przetwarzania, usunięcia,
żądania sprzeciwu wobec przetwarzania oraz wniesienia skargi do Prezesa Urzędu Ochrony Danych Osobowych.
Szczegółowe informacje na temat ochrony danych osobowych dostępne są w <a href="https://ue.poznan.pl/pl/polityka-prywatnosci,c12767/">Polityce prywatności</a>.
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