<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>I appreciate your confidence in me, but I feel that I would make
a mess of it. Plus, if I can't read existing standards, I
probably can't figure out how to improve them either.</p>
<p>I have similar problems with videos, TV episodes, books, etc.
I've been working on doing better with videos, but it seems that
YouTube makes me angry now.<br>
</p>
<p>For some reason, my ability to email people remains. I don't
know if I comprehend things too well in emails.</p>
<p>I feel it's best to stick with my strong points in bug finding,
problem solving and creativity. I am not sure if there's a place
for that in Web3D/X3D.</p>
<p>I totally understand that X_ITE supports script <field>s,
but I don't know if script <field>'s are required to be
supported by the standard.</p>
<p>I think the main sticking point is that HTML does not support
script <field>'s, so neither does X3D4? But somehow, X_ITE
supports <field>s in scripts, and does DOM as well, via
Andreas' extension. It would seem that X3DOM could support
scripts given some effort. When I tried, I ran up against
<field>'s not being supported, so I bailed. But perhaps
someone with a bit more persistence could get past that, IDK.</p>
<p>Integrating Protos and Scripts still seems to be an unsolved
problem in X3DOM? Is my effort the only one that actually has
some modicum of success (with some of my own files)? If we start
somewhere, should we start with my effort, or X_ITE? Or another
path?</p>
<p>I opened email to report a possible misunderstanding in x3d.py.
I'll put that in another email.<br>
</p>
<p>Thanks!<br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/4/21 12:30, Brutzman, Donald
(Don) (CIV) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BY3PR13MB48841A0430B29C367941A457C46B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style>@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p>Hi John. You reasonably ask “Does the X3D4 standard eschew
script <field>s? And instead offer "onclick()" events?”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ummm, why wonder ever again? Why not
propose fixing X3D4 if unclear or incorrect? Together we are
in charge of our own destiny.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5">X3D4
Architecture, Committee Draft CD1, Annex L HTML authoring
guidelines<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/htmlGuidelines.html">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/htmlGuidelines.html</a><o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The X3D4 guidelines are intended to
complement HTML5. Building up behavior examples (like the
rosetta-stone bouncing ball) that show HTML DOM being HTML
DOM, and X3D being X3D, is a very good approach.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for all scrutiny, demonstration, and
possible improvements. Looking forward to steady continuing
progress together as a community.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p.s. Have fun with X3D4 and HTML5! 8)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">all the best, Don<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">-- <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code
USW/Br <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA
93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
https://</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> x3d-public
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"><x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org></a> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>John Carlson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 3, 2021 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joseph D Williams <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net"><joedwil@earthlink.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> X3D Graphics public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] X3D Scripting for X3DOM
w/o reading standard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>For example, if we see this: <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kshell.com%2Fpages%2Frosetta%2Frosetta_x3dom.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cd58b5c7907f946261f5908d9b6a95d50%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637741660814396507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=m8v5lK7iHaM%2Bplb5%2BxUiBaJjyI4F%2BHuNox1t%2BCwd6ro%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.kshell.com/pages/rosetta/rosetta_x3dom.html</a>
copied from another email, we see that there are *no* script
<field>s in the code.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Does the X3D4 standard eschew script <field>s? And
instead offer "onclick()" events?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/3/21 15:33, John Carlson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Dec
3, 2021, at 1:53 PM, Joseph D Williams
<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><joedwil@earthlink.net></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">2.
What are the stumbling blocks to getting script fields
into the event model?<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Scripts are completely involved in
the x3d sai event model. A script must receive an event
to begin execution and then it is like an ’external’ in
that when the script begins it essentially acts like a
beginUpdate and when it completes it essentially gets an
endUpdate and all outputs are sent with the same time
stamp as kicked off the script. Think of it as script is
like any other node that can receive and send events.
Only exception is, I think, that a script directOut does
not initiate a new cascade<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Part of the thing to do is try script
fields in X3DOM and see if they work at all, and if they
don’t, try to do a minimal amount of debugging to see what
might be done.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not recall if Roy’s work on this
is available still or not.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="2">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">3.
If scripts are transformed, how?<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If it is ECMAScript then what do
you do? What can be done? Break it down into json
like any other node? For some reason I hope not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Well, one could potentially replace
field access with a node attribute util get or set
method. But this can get really tricky, if not
impossible to do in all cases. It would be better to
implement script field routes, if possible. See above.
If one could get script field routes into the HTML
standard, much, much better…<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Joe <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">John Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, November 30, 2021 11:40 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">X3D Graphics public
mailing list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[x3d-public] X3D Scripting for
X3DOM w/o reading standard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Information needed:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. Do scripts in proto bodies
get copied?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. What are the stumbling
blocks to getting script fields into the event
model?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. If scripts are transformed,
how?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">4. What is the new event model
for X3D4?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>