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<p>I will keep my draft email aside until it can be tested with an
improved x3d.py.</p>
<p>The main issue appears to be the difference between a hand-coded
python app and a JSON-based python dict, with difference between
how SFVec3f setter handles tuple versus list.</p>
<p>Good luck with testing/development!</p>
<p>I will try to flesh out the partial classes, preparing for
integration with the classes generated by the stylesheet.
Hopefully, I will get to full XML output with a single JSON file.<br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/4/21 17:11, Brutzman, Donald
(Don) (CIV) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal">John, thanks for your note but again no
complaints (ever) by me for your worthy efforts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Email motivation: when I post it is best
effort for everyone in community (now and future) reading the
archives. Avoiding confusion is important.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please stand by on further x3d.py
commentary. Last weekend made good progress (as reported to
you via phone Tuesday) and almost finished initial JSON
export, now need to check a regression issue on VRML export.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">all the best, Don<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">--
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School,
Code USW/Br <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey
CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy
robotics https://</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John Carlson
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 4, 2021 2:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"><brutzman@nps.edu></a>; Joseph D Williams
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net"><joedwil@earthlink.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> X3D Graphics public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] X3D Scripting for X3DOM
w/o reading standard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>I appreciate your confidence in me, but I feel that I would
make a mess of it. Plus, if I can't read existing
standards, I probably can't figure out how to improve them
either.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I have similar problems with videos, TV episodes, books,
etc. I've been working on doing better with videos, but it
seems that YouTube makes me angry now.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For some reason, my ability to email people remains. I
don't know if I comprehend things too well in emails.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I feel it's best to stick with my strong points in bug
finding, problem solving and creativity. I am not sure if
there's a place for that in Web3D/X3D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I totally understand that X_ITE supports script
<field>s, but I don't know if script <field>'s
are required to be supported by the standard.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I think the main sticking point is that HTML does not
support script <field>'s, so neither does X3D4? But
somehow, X_ITE supports <field>s in scripts, and does
DOM as well, via Andreas' extension. It would seem that
X3DOM could support scripts given some effort. When I
tried, I ran up against <field>'s not being supported,
so I bailed. But perhaps someone with a bit more
persistence could get past that, IDK.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Integrating Protos and Scripts still seems to be an
unsolved problem in X3DOM? Is my effort the only one that
actually has some modicum of success (with some of my own
files)? If we start somewhere, should we start with my
effort, or X_ITE? Or another path?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I opened email to report a possible misunderstanding in
x3d.py. I'll put that in another email.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/4/21 12:30, Brutzman, Donald
(Don) (CIV) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>Hi John. You reasonably ask “Does the X3D4 standard
eschew script <field>s? And instead offer
"onclick()" events?”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ummm, why wonder ever again? Why not
propose fixing X3D4 if unclear or incorrect? Together we
are in charge of our own destiny.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">X3D4
Architecture, Committee Draft CD1, Annex L HTML
authoring guidelines<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><a
href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/htmlGuidelines.html"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/htmlGuidelines.html</a><o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The X3D4 guidelines are intended to
complement HTML5. Building up behavior examples (like the
rosetta-stone bouncing ball) that show HTML DOM being HTML
DOM, and X3D being X3D, is a very good approach.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for all scrutiny, demonstration,
and possible improvements. Looking forward to steady
continuing progress together as a community.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p.s. Have fun with X3D4 and HTML5! 8)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">all the best, Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">--
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate
School, Code USW/Br
<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">brutzman@nps.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute,
Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy
robotics https://</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> x3d-public <a
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org></a> <b>On
Behalf Of </b>John Carlson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 3, 2021 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joseph D Williams <a
href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><joedwil@earthlink.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> X3D Graphics public mailing list <a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] X3D Scripting for
X3DOM w/o reading standard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For example, if we see this: <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kshell.com%2Fpages%2Frosetta%2Frosetta_x3dom.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C3c69f0c7cc5f457ced0208d9b7728cbd%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637742525300096123%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wsa4aY%2B8UhE%2FnLTAKQdrOMSwiq5m6L4g6SkakyjGXxA%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.kshell.com/pages/rosetta/rosetta_x3dom.html</a>
copied from another email, we see that there are *no*
script <field>s in the code.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Does the X3D4 standard eschew script <field>s? And
instead offer "onclick()" events?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/3/21 15:33, John Carlson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On
Dec 3, 2021, at 1:53 PM, Joseph D Williams
<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><joedwil@earthlink.net></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo6">2.
What are the stumbling blocks to getting script
fields into the event model?<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Scripts are completely involved
in the x3d sai event model. A script must receive an
event to begin execution and then it is like an
’external’ in that when the script begins it
essentially acts like a beginUpdate and when it
completes it essentially gets an endUpdate and all
outputs are sent with the same time stamp as kicked
off the script. Think of it as script is like any
other node that can receive and send events. Only
exception is, I think, that a script directOut does
not initiate a new cascade<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Part of the thing to do is try script
fields in X3DOM and see if they work at all, and if they
don’t, try to do a minimal amount of debugging to see
what might be done.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not recall if Roy’s work on
this is available still or not.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="2">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1
lfo6">3. If scripts are transformed, how?<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If it is ECMAScript then what
do you do? What can be done? Break it down into
json like any other node? For some reason I hope
not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Well, one could potentially
replace field access with a node attribute util get
or set method. But this can get really tricky, if
not impossible to do in all cases. It would be
better to implement script field routes, if
possible. See above. If one could get script field
routes into the HTML standard, much, much better…<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Joe <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">John Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, November 30, 2021 11:40
AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">X3D Graphics public
mailing list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[x3d-public] X3D Scripting
for X3DOM w/o reading standard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Information needed:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. Do scripts in proto
bodies get copied?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. What are the stumbling
blocks to getting script fields into the event
model?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. If scripts are
transformed, how?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">4. What is the new event
model for X3D4?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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