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<p>I don't see an immediate configuration to the python package for
converting JSON arrays to python tuples, will continue digging. I
realize we can only use standard packages, so we may have to
convert JSON to X3DJSON compatible with our library.</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/4/21 20:49, John Carlson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a111bb1f-6fdf-2535-1830-0e053189802f@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>With a small change to HelloWorld.py, a large amount of clarity
comes. I have made a couple of changes to
Viewport.centerOfRotation and Viewport.position values, making
them lists instead of tuples, and the following is revealed:</p>
<p><span style="font-family:monospace"><span
style="color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;">$ python3
examples/HelloWorld.py </span><br>
x3d.py package loaded, have fun with X3D Graphics! <br>
Traceback (most recent call last): <br>
File
"/c/x3d-code/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/python/examples/HelloWorld.py",
line 59, in <module> <br>
Viewpoint(DEF='ViewUpClose',centerOfRotation=<u><i><b>[0,-1,0]</b></i></u>,description='Hello
world!',position=<u><i><b>[0,-1,7]</b></i></u>), <br>
File
"/c/x3d-code/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/python/x3d.py",
line 74910, in __init__ <br>
self.centerOfRotation = centerOfRotation <br>
File
"/c/x3d-code/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/python/x3d.py",
line 74931, in centerOfRotation <br>
assertValidSFVec3f(centerOfRotation) <br>
File
"/c/x3d-code/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/python/x3d.py",
line 3929, in assertValidSFVec3f <br>
raise X3DTypeError(str(value)[:100] + ', type=' +
str(type(value)) + ' is not a valid Python tuple for SFVec3f')
<br>
x3d.X3DTypeError: [0, -1, 0], type=<class 'list'> is not
a valid Python tuple for SFVec3f<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:monospace"></span>I'm guessing
you've already addressed this. If we want to continue with
tuples, we will probably have to configure json loading. I will
look into that now.<br>
</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/4/21 20:29, John Carlson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:4a2a4c11-1257-e991-ef3d-fe00244154eb@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<p>I will keep my draft email aside until it can be tested with
an improved x3d.py.</p>
<p>The main issue appears to be the difference between a
hand-coded python app and a JSON-based python dict, with
difference between how SFVec3f setter handles tuple versus
list.</p>
<p>Good luck with testing/development!</p>
<p>I will try to flesh out the partial classes, preparing for
integration with the classes generated by the stylesheet.
Hopefully, I will get to full XML output with a single JSON
file.<br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/4/21 17:11, Brutzman, Donald
(Don) (CIV) wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BY3PR13MB488490129C82CECE7C519F88C46B9@BY3PR13MB4884.namprd13.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal">John, thanks for your note but again no
complaints (ever) by me for your worthy efforts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Email motivation: when I post it is
best effort for everyone in community (now and future)
reading the archives. Avoiding confusion is important.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please stand by on further x3d.py
commentary. Last weekend made good progress (as reported
to you via phone Tuesday) and almost finished initial JSON
export, now need to check a regression issue on VRML
export.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">all the best, Don<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate
School, Code USW/Br <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated
moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">brutzman@nps.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute,
Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy
robotics https://</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John Carlson <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 4, 2021 2:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><brutzman@nps.edu></a>;
Joseph D Williams <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><joedwil@earthlink.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> X3D Graphics public mailing list <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] X3D Scripting for
X3DOM w/o reading standard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>I appreciate your confidence in me, but I feel that I
would make a mess of it. Plus, if I can't read existing
standards, I probably can't figure out how to improve
them either.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I have similar problems with videos, TV episodes,
books, etc. I've been working on doing better with
videos, but it seems that YouTube makes me angry now.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For some reason, my ability to email people remains. I
don't know if I comprehend things too well in emails.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I feel it's best to stick with my strong points in bug
finding, problem solving and creativity. I am not sure
if there's a place for that in Web3D/X3D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I totally understand that X_ITE supports script
<field>s, but I don't know if script
<field>'s are required to be supported by the
standard.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I think the main sticking point is that HTML does not
support script <field>'s, so neither does X3D4?
But somehow, X_ITE supports <field>s in scripts,
and does DOM as well, via Andreas' extension. It would
seem that X3DOM could support scripts given some
effort. When I tried, I ran up against <field>'s
not being supported, so I bailed. But perhaps someone
with a bit more persistence could get past that, IDK.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Integrating Protos and Scripts still seems to be an
unsolved problem in X3DOM? Is my effort the only one
that actually has some modicum of success (with some of
my own files)? If we start somewhere, should we start
with my effort, or X_ITE? Or another path?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I opened email to report a possible misunderstanding in
x3d.py. I'll put that in another email.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/4/21 12:30, Brutzman, Donald
(Don) (CIV) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>Hi John. You reasonably ask “Does the X3D4 standard
eschew script <field>s? And instead offer
"onclick()" events?”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ummm, why wonder ever again? Why
not propose fixing X3D4 if unclear or incorrect?
Together we are in charge of our own destiny.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3">X3D4
Architecture, Committee Draft CD1, Annex L HTML
authoring guidelines<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><a
href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/htmlGuidelines.html"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/htmlGuidelines.html</a><o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The X3D4 guidelines are intended to
complement HTML5. Building up behavior examples (like
the rosetta-stone bouncing ball) that show HTML DOM
being HTML DOM, and X3D being X3D, is a very good
approach.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for all scrutiny,
demonstration, and possible improvements. Looking
forward to steady continuing progress together as a
community.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p.s. Have fun with X3D4 and HTML5!
8)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">all the best, Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate
School, Code USW/Br <a
href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">brutzman@nps.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute,
Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">X3D graphics, virtual worlds,
navy robotics https://</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New",serif">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> x3d-public <a
href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org></a> <b>On
Behalf Of </b>John Carlson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 3, 2021 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joseph D Williams <a
href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><joedwil@earthlink.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> X3D Graphics public mailing list <a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<x3d-public@web3d.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] X3D Scripting for
X3DOM w/o reading standard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For example, if we see this: <a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kshell.com%2Fpages%2Frosetta%2Frosetta_x3dom.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7C3c69f0c7cc5f457ced0208d9b7728cbd%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637742525300096123%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wsa4aY%2B8UhE%2FnLTAKQdrOMSwiq5m6L4g6SkakyjGXxA%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.kshell.com/pages/rosetta/rosetta_x3dom.html</a>
copied from another email, we see that there are *no*
script <field>s in the code.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Does the X3D4 standard eschew script <field>s?
And instead offer "onclick()" events?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/3/21 15:33, John Carlson
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On
Dec 3, 2021, at 1:53 PM, Joseph D Williams <a
href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><joedwil@earthlink.net></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1
lfo6">2. What are the stumbling blocks to
getting script fields into the event model?<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Scripts are completely
involved in the x3d sai event model. A script
must receive an event to begin execution and
then it is like an ’external’ in that when the
script begins it essentially acts like a
beginUpdate and when it completes it essentially
gets an endUpdate and all outputs are sent with
the same time stamp as kicked off the script.
Think of it as script is like any other node
that can receive and send events. Only exception
is, I think, that a script directOut does not
initiate a new cascade<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Part of the thing to do is try
script fields in X3DOM and see if they work at all,
and if they don’t, try to do a minimal amount of
debugging to see what might be done. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not recall if Roy’s work
on this is available still or not.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="2">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1
lfo6">3. If scripts are transformed, how?<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If it is ECMAScript then
what do you do? What can be done? Break it
down into json like any other node? For some
reason I hope not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Well, one could potentially
replace field access with a node attribute util
get or set method. But this can get really
tricky, if not impossible to do in all cases.
It would be better to implement script field
routes, if possible. See above. If one could
get script field routes into the HTML standard,
much, much better…<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Joe <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><a
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">John Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, November 30, 2021
11:40 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">X3D Graphics
public mailing list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[x3d-public] X3D
Scripting for X3DOM w/o reading standard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Information needed:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. Do scripts in
proto bodies get copied?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. What are the
stumbling blocks to getting script fields
into the event model?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. If scripts are
transformed, how?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">4. What is the new
event model for X3D4?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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