<div dir="auto">Some nice things which might be in a possible XSLT tool:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">* works with concrete examples, from multiple targets to multiple sources. I’m imagining something like XslByDemo (IBM), but separating source from target.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">* both declarative (recursion) and imperative (loops, conditions)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">* documentation of rules in stylesheet easy to extract (meta-XSLT).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">* code coverage</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">* minimal or humble cost</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I have mostly on used command-line tools for compiling c/c++ on Windows XP back around 2001. I used both gnu and Microsoft command line tools. I have very little experience with Visual Studio or VS Code.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:59 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto">My constraints right now are 1) my health, which has been discussed—I definitely have COVID 2) appropriate tools for writing and documenting XSLT. I don’t think that vim/nvim is going to cut it, and wife doesn’t want to talk about spending $200 right now. Recommendations for free or open source software (no spyware or malware please) welcome. I have not tested any freely available tools for this, I would appreciate recommendations that run on Windows 10.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">John</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:34 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Summary. We plan to proceed carefully with C/C++/C# specification and implementation.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Further assistance will be much appreciated, we are time limited. There are major opportunities here for people to learn and contribute.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here are extensive notes from our discussion.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Discussion 1.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dick and I remain blocked by X3D4 architecture document work and cannot work on those document, only support. So we need two individuals: an editor, and we need an implementor.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">John Carlson might be willing to assist as an implementer for second implementation (autogenerated from X3DUOM).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We were also wondering if your code can be placed in an open-source license, perhaps by Web3D Consortium. (Answer yes, that is done)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Whoever helps with code needs to be capable of compiling and testing the results with our examples. Neither Dick nor I are capable of spending time for that. Without full testing, we cannot be confident that everything is OK.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you are willing to work with me on XSLT then that is a possible path, but my time is still highly overcommitted due to emergent responsibilities at work. So I would love to proceed with you, but I am really worried that my duties will
not allow us to succeed together.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I recommend that we find one more person to help who is a good C, C++ C# programmer, then we can carefully proceed.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Web3D rules are clear that we need 2 implementations. Your existing codebase can be one implementation, the X3DUOM-generated source can be a second implementation. Yes they will probably be very similar, but that will let us follow the
rules.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dick and I can assist anyone who joins in the work, but we do need another active person to proceed.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Our rules can be found at <a href="https://www.web3d.org/standards" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/standards</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Standards Adoption Process <a href="https://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For that process, since we are extending existing work, sections 1-4 are essentially complete.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For Section 5. Create Standard or Extension, we especially need '5. Identify at least two independent and interoperable implementations (at least one should be open source)'<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Inventory of what is needed next:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">a. Suwon source accessible (preferably under open-source license, such as Web3D license)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">b. Use X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM) via XSLT to create another independent codebase (similar to X3DJSAIL, X3DPSAIL, X3D Ontology)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3DUOM.html" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3DUOM.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">c. Create an X3dToCpp.xslt and X3dToCsharp.xslt stylesheets to convert .x3d models into source code (again similar to Java, Python, Turtle)
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">d. When those converters are successfully testing the codebase against some .x3d models, then we can apply them to all 4000 models in the X3D Example Archives. That provides full coverage of correctness. See any of the models at<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html#Examples" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html#Examples</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">e. Notice that such testing requires a C/C++/C# expert who can identify flaws and potential fixes. (Neither Dick nor I have that expertise)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">f. Native C/C++/C# Viewers not required to confirm correctness of data structures when performing conversions correctly… If someone wants to add that to the open source, they are welcome.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Discussion 2<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">MWL says<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Her existing C, C++, C## source was already placed under a Web3D Consortium Open Source license in 2019<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">- She would like to proceed with all three versions for C, C++, C#<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Licenses at <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org" target="_blank">https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Older versions of Suwon code is already checked in and can get updated at
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages" target="_blank">https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We discussed how<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Autogenerated cpp and csharp libraries will go in following location<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets" target="_blank">https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Don will discuss with Dick if one hour per week of shared time is possible… we agreed to try.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Myeong can do much of this work, and might be able to attract student(s) or another professional to help<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in">- Let's meet again in two weeks (perhaps at same time)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Next meeting: <u></u><u></u></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li style="margin-left:0in">Tuesday FEB 8, 1300 pacific<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Wednesday FEB 9, 0600 Korea<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We will use x3d-public mailing list to report periodic progress.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your patience and your many efforts. We will keep trying.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">all the best, Don<u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">--
<u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" style="font-family:"Courier New",serif" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New",serif"><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" style="font-family:"Courier New",serif" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New",serif"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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