<div dir="ltr">I have given creating an example by hand with text editing some thought, and I think I would be more productive in something like Blender for particle systems.<div><br></div><div>Thoughts?</div><div><br></div><div>John</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 5:55 AM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">BTW, I recall that X3dToJson.xslt totally elided my WindParticleSystem. Don, I recommend running X3dToJson.xslt round-trip against Holger's models. I will do that instead of creating examples.<div><br>More to come on possibly fixing up X3dToJson.xslt, stylesheets, serializers, etc.</div><div><br></div><div>John</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 5:44 AM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I tried for a while to get something working, using FreeWRL. My best attempt was a red stationary sphere. Then I said to myself, X_ITE/create3000 must have some examples, and sure enough:<div><br></div><div><a href="https://create3000.github.io/media/examples/ParticleSystems/ParticleSystem/example.html" target="_blank">https://create3000.github.io/media/examples/ParticleSystems/ParticleSystem/example.html</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://github.com/create3000/Library/tree/main/Tests/Components/ParticleSystems/" target="_blank">https://github.com/create3000/Library/tree/main/Tests/Components/ParticleSystems/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>I will work on an example based on some of these, but I wanted to give Holger some credit first! The first example is pretty awesome!</div><div><br></div><div>Enjoy!</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 4:26 AM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Okay, I'll try writing one!<div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br></div><div>John</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 3:48 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal">John, thanks for looking ahead. The best way to think through notional use cases is by, ahem, using them – demonstrating with examples. We do need shared example scenes in our archives for this component.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">We remain at the editorial stage of final review. So we are not re-inventing now.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">When we can clarify the X3D4 specification, we are doing so. If our current final review leads proposals for future X3D4.1 spec, we add them to Mantis. Onward we go.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">all the best, Don<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">-- <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span> <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 11, 2022 10:55 AM<br><b>To:</b> Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> X3D Public Mailing List (<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>) <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] X3D minutes 11 FEB 2022: , X3D4 Particle Systems component review, adding enabled field to X3DParticleEmitterNode ?<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I think it would be better to offer a transition from enabled to disabled and back. But perhaps that’s max speed and min speed?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">But I agree that enabled is a good start, and adding a field for full on and full off with no transition is a good idea. One might think of scenes where a door is shut.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I’m not sure if full on/full off matches physical reality. I can think of examples like bombs, volcanoes and dropping things though.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">A combination of min/max speed and on/off would cover the cases I’m thinking of.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">John <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:36 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Tweeted:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><ul type="disc"><li>X3D meeting minutes 11 FEB 2022: #X3D4 Architecture Particle Systems component review. Community question: is it OK to add 'enabled' field to all emitter nodes, providing simpler animation control by authors and end users?<u></u><u></u></li><li><a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FWeb3DConsortium%2Fstatus%2F1492205445120815105&data=04%7C01%7Cbrutzman%40nps.edu%7Cdf587868e4dc45076d8808d9ed8ff681%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637805869539926559%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=IyApkG4TB7hbt%2FYIPSGiNjOhs4LpScFDdOr5MDPrrHE%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1492205445120815105</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Request: if anyone has links or screenshots of Particle System models in X3D4, we are happy to share them publicly. Thanks in advance for all posts.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">all the best, Don</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">-- </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span> <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 11, 2022 9:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> X3D Public Mailing List (<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>) <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> X3D minutes 11 FEB 2022: , X3D4 Particle Systems component review, adding enabled field to X3DParticleEmitterNode ?<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Attendees: Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman. Regrets: Nicholas Polys, John Carlson.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><ol start="1" type="1"><li>Completed X3D4 Particle Systems component review. All Mantis issues updated and resolved. Latest modifications highlighted via CSS with corresponding Mantis issues documented using /title/ attributes.<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p style="margin-left:0.25in"> <u></u><u></u></p><ul type="disc"><li>X3D4 Architecture, clause 37 Particle Systems component<u></u><u></u></li><li><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/particleSystems.html" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/particleSystems.html</a> <u></u><u></u></li></ul><div style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:1.5pt solid windowtext;padding:0in 0in 1pt"><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">a. Improved issue notes, WindPhysicsModel:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><ul type="disc"><li>Mantis <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background:rgb(243,243,243)">464: 40.4.10 WindPhysicsModel - Question on Speed</span> <u></u><u></u></li><li><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=464" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=464</a><u></u><u></u></li><li>Related issue: Mantis 768. Deferred to X3D 4.1<u></u><u></u></li></ul><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background:rgb(243,243,243)">Likely pressure equation for future use will be based on difference between particle speed and wind speed.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><br clear="all"><br clear="all"><span style="background:rgb(243,243,243)">Note that the turbulence definition (regarding variability of wind direction) also needs improvement. For example, can highly turbulent wind stop or reverse direction?</span></span><u></u><u></u></p><div style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:1.5pt solid windowtext;padding:0in 0in 1pt"><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p style="margin-left:0.75in"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">b. New deficiency noted: how do you turn off an emitter node?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">No /enabled/ field is present. Possibly /speed/ might be zero, but then particle geometry would still be present and perhaps pulsing... Possibly a Switch node might hide it, but then the browser writer likely just turns it off anyway to save computational resources, which is functionally equivalent to enabled FALSE.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">We discussed in some depth… Have raises an issue in Mantis, here posted publicly. We seek comment, and decide (hopefully next week) whether it is something to be accomplished in X3D 4.0 or else deferred to X3D 4.1. <u></u><u></u></p><div style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:1.5pt solid windowtext;padding:0in 0in 1pt"><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><ul type="disc"><li>Mantis 1380: ability to disable/enable X3DParticleEmitterNode <u></u><u></u></li><li><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><br>Authors are unable to easily turn particle emitter nodes on or off.<br clear="all"><br clear="all">X3DParticleEmitterNode (and implementing nodes) need field:<br clear="all"><br clear="all"> SFBool [in out] enabled TRUE<br clear="all"><br clear="all">Implementation is simple for browsers. This field has no impact on legacy content.<br clear="all"><br clear="all">Current workarounds:<br clear="all">* Possibly /speed/ might be zero, but then a particle would still be present and pulsing...<br clear="all">* Possibly a Switch node might hide the emitter, but then the browser writer likely turns it off anyway to save computational resources, which is functionally equivalent to enabled FALSE.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Of related note: X3DParticlePhysicsModelNode in this component does include an enabled field, for identical purposes.</span><u></u><u></u></p><div style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:1.5pt solid windowtext;padding:0in 0in 1pt"><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Vince discussed his Browser Review document noting X3D support, we hope to look at this draft further next week.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">No member-only information included on this page.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hope everybody has another great week. Have fun with X3D!<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">all the best, Don</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">-- </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span> <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>
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