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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Attendees: Anita Havele, Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Doug Sanden, Don Brutzman.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We successfully held our regular weekly X3D meeting today, 08-0900 pacific. Agenda topics follow.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoPlainText style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09 <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoPlainText style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://zoom.us/j/148206572 Password 483805 <o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoPlainText style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information <o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'>New weekly agenda item: review ballot items from INCITS H3 (U.S. Standards Body) and W3C.<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We reviewed procedures and voted on two ballots for US. National Body.<o:p></o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=2 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'>Web3D 2022 Conference preparations are progressing well. Call for Papers is now approved and available!<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>http://web3d.siggraph.org<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://web3d.siggraph.org/web3d-2022-call-for-papers<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Web3D 2022: 27th International Conference on 3D Web Technology will be November 2-4. Dates of interest:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in;border:none;padding:0in'>Submission July 23rd, 2022<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'> Papers<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'> Tutorials<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'> Workshops<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in;border:none;padding:0in'>Notification Sept. 15th, 2022<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.25in;border:none;padding:0in'>Final version 01/10/2022<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in'><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=3 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'>X3D Scene Access Interface (SAI) draft specifications for C, C++, C# language bindings available for comment.<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoListParagraph><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>[x3d-public] X3D C/C++/C# CD texts approval for ISO submission - public comments requested<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2022-April/017073.html<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://www.web3d.org/specifications/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-3v3.3-CD C<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://www.web3d.org/specifications/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-4v3.3-CD C++<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://www.web3d.org/specifications/ISO-IEC19777/ISO-IEC19777-5v3.3-CD C#<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Our plan is to proceed with international review of version 3.3 of these specifications, then upgrade to 4.0 once X3D4 Architecture is complete and then X3D4 SAI 19775-2 abstract specification is similarly updated.<o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=4 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'>Our current top priority is resolving Mantis review issues, in order to finalize X3D4 Architecture for Draft International Standard submission to ISO.<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/Architecture.html<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:.25in'><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=4 type=1><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=a><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2'>PointProperties markerType: does it look OK?<o:p></o:p></li></ol></ol><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>[x3d-public] X3D minutes, Friday 1 APR 2022: glTF X3D4 video, mantis issues, PointProperties markerType<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2022-April/017049.html<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>X3D4 Architecture, Shape component, 12.4.7 PointProperties<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/shape.html#PointProperties<o:p></o:p></li></ul><div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>We had insightful discussion, the following was added to Mantis.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Mantis 1393: 12.4.7 PointProperties missing markerType field<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1393">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1393</a><o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Where is point sprite (or point splat) proposal?<br><br>Is this aligned satisfactorily/sufficiently with common practices for point visualization? Seems compatible with other symbology.<br><br>Can we<br>- control transparency? (background fully transparent, no control provided)<br>- control color? (yes, by Material or Color node with indices/order)<br>- specify other images/icons/glyphs/sprite? (yes, but requires coordination)<br><br>If accepted, needs mention in 11.4.12 PointSet<br><br>If accepted, needs integration with prior/existing work (including X3DOM implementation)<br><br>If not accepted, needs to be deferred to X3D4.1<br><br>Proposing additional markerTypes to ISO corresponding to these other approaches is a useful option to us.<br><br>Goal: resolve during April 2022.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=4 type=1><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=2 type=a><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo2'>Mantis 1192: 07.2.2 Bindable children nodes - Undefined results if bindable node is under Switch or LOD is problematic<o:p></o:p></li></ol></ol><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:.75in'><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1192">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1192</a><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border-top:solid #4472C4 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid #4472C4 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:10.0pt 0in 10.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoIntenseQuote align=left style='text-align:left'>Spec sayeth:<br>"The results are undefined if a bindable node is bound and is the child of an LOD, Switch, or any node or prototype that disables its children."<br><br>This leads to all manner of inconsistent problems among scenes. It also means that Inline node (which may or may not include bindable nodes) has undefined behavior under LOD/Switch/etc.<br><br>As a result, in addition to indeterminate X3D browser behavior, it means that X3D scenes are not fully composable. That is contrary to X3D design objectives.<br><br>Different prose and deterministic guidelines is needed in this section that provides clear rules for binding/unbinding nodes when they become active within LOD/Switch/etc. Small adaptations to current binding rules can likely address this problem satisfactorily.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Request review and comment on the following suggested resolution. The intent is to reinforce author modeling choices over independent browser optimization.<br><br> “Sending a set_bind event to a bindable node that is a child of a Switch node is <span style='background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>typically</span> ignored, respecting the selection logic of the parent Switch.<br><br> Since different levels of an LOD node are intended to be visually similar and only varying in terms of level of detail, sending a set_bind event to a bindable node that is a child of an LOD typically binds that node and also activates the corresponding level in the LOD.<br><br> Even if event behavior is ignored, such occurrences may be reported via a console (if available).”<o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in'>Group review comments, added to Mantis 1192:<o:p></o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'>For Switch, avoid “<span style='background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>typically</span>” and make phrasing unambiguous that the autoselection occurs.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'>For bindable nodes, note that they remain active on their respective binding stack.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'>If you have a bound Viewpoint under a selected Switch child, and a different Switch child becomes selected, is that current Viewpoint unbound? We would expect so…<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><br>If this is too complex, we should defer to X3D4.1. This nevertheless is a reduction of the “browser response is undefined” space. Let's get this potential refinement sorted out as best possible, then assess if resolves the issue satisfactorily, and then approve or else defer to 4.1.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nicholas noted prior work on “Plans for Merging X3D AR Proposals” proposal, we added this to Mantis as deferred work for X3D4.1 specification.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'>https://www.web3d.org/wiki/index.php/Plans_for_Merging_X3D_AR_Proposals<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo6'>https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1394<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Have fun with X3D! 8)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>all the best, Don<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>faculty.nps.edu/brutzman<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>