<div dir="ltr">run-time DEF/USE name scope is different than parse-time ProtoDeclare name scope.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 1:32 PM Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Doug,<br>
<br>
> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:02:21 -0600<br>
> From: GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>><br>
> To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] ProtoBody completeness in nested Protos<br>
<br>
> "..assuming that the outer scene<br>
> Execution Context should apply also to the Proto Execution Context. I<br>
> do not think this is the case. Or is it ?"<br>
> freewrl: contexts inherit defined protos from parent contexts.<br>
> (as you go down the stack of contexts with nested protos, deeper proto<br>
> contexts inherit the defined protos of the parent context)<br>
<br>
I am not sure this such inheritance is intended since there is an<br>
emphasis on each Proto having its own name scope and execution context<br>
in order to avoid any conflicts:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/concepts.html#Runtimenamescope" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/concepts.html#Runtimenamescope</a><br>
<br>
Instead of inheriting protos from parents each proto would need to<br>
declare all protos it is itself using. Similarly, Inlines do not<br>
inherit name scopes from parents.<br>
<br>
At least such inheritance is not mentioned or implied by the spec.<br>
language as far as I could locate. It is possible I missed a corner.<br>
<br>
Best, Andreas<br>
<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 9:21 AM Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 12:43 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)<br>
> > <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > > Actually please look a little more closely at that (admittedly tricky)<br>
> > > example.<br>
> ><br>
> > Thanks, looking closely is when I noticed that the CircleFishLod<br>
> > ProtoBody is not completely defined within itself.<br>
> ><br>
> > > * CircleFish is an ExternProto, separately defined in another file<br>
> > > * CircleFishLod is a ProtoDeclare defined in that first file,<br>
> > > CircleFishLodPrototype.x3d<br>
> > > * CircleFishLod ProtoBody contains two ProtoInstance copies of CircleFish<br>
> ><br>
> > Yes, but the CircleFishLod ProtoBody does not contain the CircleFish<br>
> > ExternProtoDeclare (referencing the CircleFish ExternProto) which the<br>
> > two copies of CircleFish use. So the ProtoBody is incomplete.<br>
> ><br>
> > > * CircleFishLod ProtoDeclare is then followed by a CircleFishLod<br>
> > > ProtoInstance (again in CircleFishLodPrototype.x3d)<br>
> > > So I would expect an X3D Browser to<br>
> > ><br>
> > > a. load ExternProtoDeclare CircleFish<br>
> ><br>
> > At this point the ProtoDeclaration is only registered under its name,<br>
> > in the outer scene Execution Context. The protos array of the<br>
> > Execution Context stores it :<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19777-1/V3.3/Part1/functions.html#t-ExecutionContextProperties" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19777-1/V3.3/Part1/functions.html#t-ExecutionContextProperties</a><br>
> > .<br>
> ><br>
> > > b. build ProtoDeclare CircleFishLod<br>
> > > c. create inner ProtoInstance CircleFish for use<br>
> ><br>
> > This ProtoInstance creation will look for the CircleFish<br>
> > ProtoDeclaration, in the CircleFishLod Execution Context which is<br>
> > separate from the scene execution context/name scope. But it is only<br>
> > registered in the outer scene Context.<br>
> ><br>
> > > d. create outer ProtoInstance CircleFishLod<br>
> ><br>
> > In the example (not necessarily in the Proto x3d).<br>
> ><br>
> > > Order of steps might vary a bit, but those are the dependencies. Good<br>
> > luck<br>
> > > sir.<br>
> ><br>
> > Well, thanks for listing the specific steps which helped illuminate<br>
> > that there is a deeper issue with assuming that the outer scene<br>
> > Execution Context should apply also to the Proto Execution Context. I<br>
> > do not think this is the case. Or is it ?<br>
> ><br>
> > This scrutiny confirms to me that there is likely an oversight in the<br>
> > CircleFishLod example. The example only happens to work in some<br>
> > browsers which are more accepting of mixing Execution Contexts. The<br>
> > example can be easily fixed by moving the ExternProtoDeclare inside<br>
> > the ProtoBody, similar to other examples of nested Prototypes. In fact<br>
> > all other examples of nested prototypes I could find do this.<br>
> ><br>
> > Happy to be convinced otherwise,<br>
> ><br>
> > Andreas<br>
> ><br>
> > > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA<br>
> > +1.831.656.2149<br>
> > > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://<br>
> > > <a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><br>
> > ><br>
> > > -----Original Message-----<br>
> > > From: x3d-public <<a href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>> On Behalf Of Andreas<br>
> > Plesch<br>
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2022 9:08 PM<br>
> > > To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>
> > > Subject: [x3d-public] ProtoBody completeness in nested Protos<br>
> > ><br>
> > > ProtoDeclarations may use ProtoInstances of other Protos inside their<br>
> > > ProtoBody definitions.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > For example, the CircleFishLod proto here:<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > <a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fx3dgraphic" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fx3dgraphic</a><br>
> > > <a href="http://s.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">s.com</a><br>
> > %2Fexamples%2FX3dForWebAuthors%2FKelpForestExhibit%2FCircleFishLodProto<br>
> > > typeIndex.html&data=05%7C01%7Cbrutzman%<a href="http://40nps.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">40nps.edu</a><br>
> > %7C0b4a867ba9874e371f9b0<br>
> > ><br>
> > 8da267152fa%7C6d936231a51740ea9199f7578963378e%7C0%7C0%7C637864565880708349%<br>
> > ><br>
> > 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi<br>
> > ><br>
> > LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=upr4eckI8axT7MO5fAUvAWfyBzUJfhTwqcp<br>
> > > BuH7tZjc%3D&reserved=0<br>
> > ><br>
> > > uses ProtoInstances of the CircleFish proto.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > A more extreme case of nesting is:<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > <a href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/Miscellaneous/PRO" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/Miscellaneous/PRO</a><br>
> > > TO/fivedeepnestingIndex.html<br>
> > ><br>
> > > where Proto1 uses ProtoInstance of Proto2 inside its ProtoBody. Proto2<br>
> > > itself uses a ProtoInstance of Proto3 inside its ProtoBody. And so on to<br>
> > > five levels deep.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > The second example with the deep nesting currently works with x3dom but<br>
> > the<br>
> > > seemingly simpler CircleFishLod proto does not.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > The reason is that x3dom expects the complete definition of a proto to be<br>
> > > contained in its ProtoBody. However, The CircleFishLod proto only<br>
> > contains<br>
> > > the CircleFish ProtoInstances in the body but not the associated<br>
> > CircleFish<br>
> > > ProtoDeclaration which for some reason occurs outside the CircleFishLod<br>
> > > ProtoBody (and outside the CircleFishLod ProtoDeclaration).<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Expecting the ProtoBody to be complete and self-contained seems rather<br>
> > > natural. Is x3dom too strict in this regard, or is there an oversight in<br>
> > the<br>
> > > example ? There is not much guidance in the spec., if any.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Thanks, Andreas<br>
> > ><br>
> > > --<br>
> > > Andreas Plesch<br>
> > > Waltham, MA 02453<br>
> > ><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > x3d-public mailing list<br>
> > > <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
> > > <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> > Andreas Plesch<br>
> > Waltham, MA 02453<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > x3d-public mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><br>
> ><br>
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> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 2<br>
> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:36:35 -0700<br>
> From: Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>><br>
> To: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>, X3D Graphics public mailing<br>
> list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3DUOM HAnim to HAnim model<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> <<a href="mailto:mailman.10.1650913202.40979.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org" target="_blank">mailman.10.1650913202.40979.x3d-public_web3d.org@web3d.org</a>><br>
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><br>
> Hi John,<br>
> I canl look at anything you get. All the joints and segments and sites are there to do a complete loa4, just that at this time, not a full list of joint center and site xyz locations are listed.<br>
> Good Luck,<br>
> Joe<br>
><br>
> From: John Carlson<br>
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2022 1:16 AM<br>
> To: X3D Graphics public mailing list<br>
> Subject: [x3d-public] X3DUOM HAnim to HAnim model<br>
><br>
> Has anyone produced an HAnim model from X3DUOM?? ?Advice?<br>
><br>
> I was thinking of using x3d.py<br>
><br>
> Thanks!<br>
><br>
> John<br>
><br>
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> End of x3d-public Digest, Vol 157, Issue 95<br>
> *******************************************<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Andreas Plesch<br>
Waltham, MA 02453<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div>