<div dir="ltr">Thanks Michalis great someone knows openGL. <div>-Doug<br><div>deprecation > I see x3d as something for prototyping, so it would have some rarely-used-in-practice features, and allow crazy permutations, which game engine designers could try and pick the things they need for their game engine. Perhaps there could be a Game Engine Profile for things actually used at scale? Example I'm trying cubemaps to get regular texture treatment, including multitexturing, and (stretch) combining cubemaps with 2D textures in a multitexture. Why, where is the 'market demand'? There is none. Except clearing out special cases in the code makes it more general, more crazy permutations possible. Perhaps there could be a Crazy Permutation Prototyping Profile which still has full permutations of Multitexturing?</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 5:12 AM Michalis Kamburelis <<a href="mailto:michalis.kambi@gmail.com">michalis.kambi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>1. I interpreted the "FACTOR" in CGE/view3dscene just like FreeWRL. That is, "FACTOR" indicates to use MultiTexture.color / MultiTexture.alpha. I see I even call it "constant factor" in CGE/view3dscene code, to make a point that it is constant for the whole "execution" of this MultiTexture calculation.</div><div><br></div><div>I think this was invented to correspond to old fixed-function OpenGL "glTexEnvv(GL_TEXTURE_ENV, GL_TEXTURE_ENV_COLOR, ...)".</div><div><br></div><div>I believe the spec should be fixed, the existing sentence indeed is incorrect, as there are no "factors at particular stages". </div><div><br></div><div>From<br></div><div><br></div><div>"""</div><div>The texture argument is the factor (color, alpha) from the texture provided for the current stage of the MultiTexture node.</div><div>"""</div><div><br></div><div>-></div><div><br></div><div>"""</div><div>The texture argument is the factor from MultiTexture node <i>color</i> and <i>alpha</i> fields.</div><div>"""</div><div><br></div><div>2. There's no alignment here with glTF -- glTF doesn't have MultiTexture. <br></div><div><br></div><div>And, also because there are numerous problems with X3D MultiTexture unfixed for many years and it doesn't seem it is used by authors, I proposed in <a href="https://castle-engine.io/x3d_multi_texturing.php" target="_blank">https://castle-engine.io/x3d_multi_texturing.php</a> and
<a href="https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Deprecate-some-unused-and-badly-specified-MultiTexturing-specification-pieces" target="_blank">https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Deprecate-some-unused-and-badly-specified-MultiTexturing-specification-pieces</a>
that we just deprecate parts of it (leaving only some core functionality subset, to just sum and multiply textures).<div></div></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Michalis<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">śr., 15 cze 2022 o 18:48 Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> napisał(a):<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Doug… am not sure. Have shared with x3d-public for further scrutiny.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Michalis, when defining FACTOR, can we say things more clearly to ensure good alignment with glTF approaches?<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">all the best, Don<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">-- <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span> <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 15, 2022 9:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Sorry I was reading the committee draft, SELECT arg2 has been corrected in Draft International Standard. <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">But the confusion on the other one, FACTOR is still there<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>in freewrl looks like we've been using Multitexture.color and .alpha when source is FACTOR.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">And those values are provided once by Multitexture for all stages<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Hypotheses:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">H0: freewrl has been doing it wrong<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">H1: spec is unclear<u></u><u></u></p><table summary="" style="width:866.2pt;border-collapse:collapse;border:medium none" width="1155" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1"><tbody><tr><td style="border:3pt groove windowtext;padding:6pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:13.5pt"><span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">"FACTOR"</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p></td><td style="border-color:windowtext windowtext windowtext currentcolor;border-style:groove groove groove none;border-width:3pt 3pt 3pt medium;padding:6pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">The texture argument is the factor (color, alpha) from the texture provided for the current stage of the MultiTexture node.<u></u><u></u></span></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 2:35 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p>Thanks Doug. Entered as Mantis 1397<u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>* Mantis 1397: Fix typo Table 18.3 — Multitexture values for mode field<u></u><u></u></p><p>* <a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1397" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1397</a><u></u><u></u></p><p>* <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/texturing.html#t-MultitextureModes" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-CD1/Part01/components/texturing.html#t-MultitextureModes</a><u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>Change applied in git, ready for editor review/resolution (when Dick and I next get together). This should make it time for ISO DIS submission, they are currently reviewing figures prior to acceptance.<u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>all the best, Don<u></u><u></u></p><p>-- <u></u><u></u></p><p>Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u></u><u></u></p><p>Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<u></u><u></u></p><p>X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https:// <a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: x3d <<a href="mailto:x3d-bounces@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-bounces@web3d.org</a>> On Behalf Of Spec Feedback<br>Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 1:15 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d@web3d.org</a><br>Subject: [x3d] Spec Comment by on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0<u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>-- Submitter indicates that this comment may be public: *Yes* --<u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>Comment on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V4.0<u></u><u></u></p><p>18.4.3 MultiTexture<u></u><u></u></p><p><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/texturing.html#MultiTexture" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/texturing.html#MultiTexture</span></a><u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>-----------------<u></u><u></u></p><p>"SELECTARG2" Use color argument 1<u></u><u></u></p><p>Arg2<u></u><u></u></p><p>should be<u></u><u></u></p><p>"SELECTARG2" Use color argument 2<u></u><u></u></p><p>Arg2<u></u><u></u></p><p>-----------------<u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>Submitted on Tuesday, 2022, June 14 - 1:15pm by (Doug Sanden )<u></u><u></u></p><p>IP: 23.17.48.2<u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>See: <a href="https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/6179" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/6179</span></a><u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p> <u></u><u></u></p><p>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></p><p>x3d mailing list<u></u><u></u></p><p><a href="mailto:x3d@web3d.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">x3d@web3d.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></p><p><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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