<div dir="auto"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">How does a web3d member get plugged into multiuser Metaverse standards? See next section down for my experience.</span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div dir="auto"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Welcome to complexity where imperative models can be made declarative and declarative models can be made imperative. Future or present SAI?</span></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Here is my understanding. X3D scenegraph encodings and glTF assets are both declarative (this used to be called structured mode). Both have ways of working with imperative code (this used to be called immediate mode). SAI application code can be either declarative or imperative or both. I’m thinking that I introduced building a imperative way of using SAI with X3DJSAIL and Don introduced building a declarative way of using SAI with X3DJSAIL.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We worked on parallel paths, but I started using declarative programming after Don proved it out. Imperative programming is still fully possible, AFAIK.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So no one needs to put up their noses and say, “We’re only declarative” or “We’re only imperative”. Those boats have shipped long ago.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thanks for listening. Everyone can have their cake and eat it too.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Of course, each SAI implementation may choose not to implement load/export, but Don’s and Myeong’s focus on providing XSLT for nearly anything proves its worth. I have not been able to produce much XSLT code because I prefer a more imperative approach.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">My work mainly involves JSON loading into DOM documents, which provides a path back to XML.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Unfinished work is JSON to Python. I’m hoping we can accomplish a path from XML or JSON into Python. Why Python? Why not?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I do think the target to hit is WASM (web assembly) for 3D graphics. I think the best use of the Metaverse might be virtual travel.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">=============================</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I worked long hours last week improving my Java lircom project, which includes a multiuser 3D authoring tool (which might be useful for building colorful borg ships), multiuser solitaire and multiuser chat system. The goal here is to provide a multiuser messaging protocol below the application protocols. Something like JMS would probably be adequate if JMS systems worked across the internet.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I also have a JavaScript multiuser system that supports a world tag game, simple card system and chat. It’s based on <a href="http://socket.io">socket.io</a></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I am open to someone taking over these projects. I do need to provide more documentation.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I know Christoph Valentin is looking for web developers for his multiuser systems. Perhaps we should look at that since I think the Metaverse is supposed to be multiuser?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Indeed, he has lots of comparisons between multiuser systems components that might be used in the Metaverse.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I am not sure if multiuser is a strength of Web3d (joined any DIS worlds lately?), but many people are interested multiuser systems. What standards body can we pair with who has a multiuser standard at the ISO level? Perhaps we should consider just using Jabber/XMPP and things like libjingle?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Can we or do we want to resurrect Google Wave?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">John</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 12:31 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="word-wrap:break-word"><div class="m_6309619550305343266WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Attendees: Anita Havele, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">We normally meet Fridays 09-1000 pacific. (Regrets, no meeting next week.)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph"><b>ISO Annual Meeting</b>. Dick and Don reviewed almost-complete annual meeting of ISO standards committee SC24. Our liaison report has been shared with Web3D Consortium members providing detail on all Web3D X3D and HAnim issues. Once the ISO meeting resolutions are shared and reviewed with members, we’ll be posting the Web3D Liaison report for public awareness. Summary: everything we have declared is progressing well.<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ol style="margin-top:0in" start="2" type="1"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph"><b>X3D Graphics Specification Relationships</b>. We have made some small adjustments to our (very busy!) chart describing all Web3D Consortium standards, and how they relate to other standards. Updated online at<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.png" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.png</a><u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dGraphicsStandardsRelationships.pdf</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Improvements to color legend:<u></u><u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">Grey, Proposed<u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">Orange, Working draft in progress<u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">Yellow, ISO balloting in progress<u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">White, ISO approved<u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Thus three standards are in ballot (X3D 4.0 Architecture, X3D 3.3 SAI Bindings for C, C++, C#) and one standard is getting updated (X3D SAI from 3.3 to 4.0).<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Of note is that rough-draft notes for (X3D SAI from 3.3 to 4.0) are posted as follows. Next step will be to put HTML versions with editorial markup in Web3D Consortium’s github version control.<u></u><u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSaiReviewCommentsJuly2022.reduced.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSaiReviewCommentsJuly2022.reduced.pdf</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">As ever, comments welcome.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ol style="margin-top:0in" start="3" type="1"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph"><b>X3D and glTF Comparison</b>. Anita is checking our most recent postings that compared glTF and X3D, which led to full support of glTF capabilities in X3D4.<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">Integrating X3D and glTF: How to Play Together Well on the WWW<u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">Nicholas Polys, Ph.D., October, 2019<u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/blog-integrating-x3d-and-gltf" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/blog-integrating-x3d-and-gltf</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">and<u></u><u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">X3D and glTF Features Comparison, 3 NOV 2017<u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/X3D%20Version%204%20Overview/glTfX3dFeaturesComparison.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/X3D%20Version%204%20Overview/glTfX3dFeaturesComparison.pdf</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hoping to confirm that everything there is still correct… changes in X3D4 likely means that some of these entries need to be updated.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Review comments and improvements are welcome.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ol style="margin-top:0in" start="4" type="1"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph"><b>Web3D Ecosystem and the Metaverse - SIGGRAPH 2022 BOF</b>. An excellent presentation is now available:<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">Web3D Ecosystem and the Metaverse - SIGGRAPH 2022 BOF, Join the Web3D Consortium for a discussion on how #X3D technology contributes to the Metaverse. From Interactive Real-Time 3D, to Mixed Reality and Humanoid Animation #HAnim for an open Metaverse.<u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1553065575512911876" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1553065575512911876</a><u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://youtu.be/2T8WbIpdIDc" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/2T8WbIpdIDc</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">TODO: post two more videos from SIGGRAPH 2022 BOFs… hopefully next week.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ol style="margin-top:0in" start="5" type="1"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph"><b>Metaverse Standards Forum</b>. As a Standards Development Organization (SDO) Web3D Consortium is a founding member of Metaverse Standards Forum. This work continues to ramp up rapidly, now with 1200 members.<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">Metaverse Standards Forum: Where Leading Standards Organizations and Companies Cooperate to Foster Interoperability Standards for an Open Metaverse<u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://metaverse-standards.org" target="_blank">https://metaverse-standards.org</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Web3D Consortium actually has a lot of available technology capabilities in this space. To learn more, please see<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">“The Metaverse Standards Forum provides a unique opportunity to achieve secure, collaborative (interoperable), durable, and pervasive Mixed-Reality content,” said Nicholas Polys Ph.D., president of the Web3D Consortium.<u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1539412412377333761" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1539412412377333761</a><u></u><u></u></li><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/blog/anitahavele/keys-open-interoperable-metaverse" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/blog/anitahavele/keys-open-interoperable-metaverse</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ol style="margin-top:0in" start="6" type="1"><li class="m_6309619550305343266MsoListParagraph"><b>Or else</b>. Have fun with X3D! 8)<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u> <u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">all the best, Don<u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">-- <u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" style="font-family:"Courier New"">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span> <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank" style="font-family:"Courier New"">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u><u style="font-family:"Courier New""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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