<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>Hi all,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Sorry, one (hopefully) last increment: v0.6</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Necessary corrections:</div>
<div>- Browser plugins are displayed correctly, now (imho)</div>
<div>- red: application software</div>
<div>- green: software with standardized or "well-known" APIs</div>
<div>- blue: APIs</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div><img src="cid:2f974b7b68070084b273c65d49a2864068d838bee0bd18b4ba4e51f9c3c2ea03"/></div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 18. September 2022 um 05:14 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin@gmx.at><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Doug Sanden" <gpugroup@gmail.com>, x3d-public@web3d.org, "Don Brutzman" <brutzman@nps.edu><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "Mehdin Masinovic" <mehdin.masinovic2@gmail.com>, "Kevin" <klw71@yahoo.com>, "Markus Sonntag" <markus.sonntag@tmo.at><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Fw: [x3d-public] Re: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>The box should be green, shouldn't it?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>-----------------------</div>
<div>Hi Doug,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I inserted another light blue box, at the left side, in order to tackle your comments.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I called the box "Native Runtime Environment" (NRE), so I think I covered all the cases of JRE, Browser Plugins and WebKit/WASM, didn't I?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div><img src="cid:2b65366bfa0b62da61921382527ce1f6a0d978a29e105735c0d7c3098199082e"/></div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px 10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px 10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 17. September 2022 um 17:45 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin@gmx.at><br/>
<b>An:</b> x3d-public@web3d.org, "Doug Sanden" <gpugroup@gmail.com><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "Mehdin Masinovic" <mehdin.masinovic2@gmail.com>, "Kevin" <klw71@yahoo.com>, "Markus Sonntag" <markus.sonntag@tmo.at><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Fw: Re: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Anyway, two last small improvements, before I let it go :-)</div>
<div> </div>
<div><img src="cid:3001de59ec002f7cafbae30ec63f477a817cd19f126276de3f35b0079aaccc1f"/></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Have a nice week</div>
<div>Yours Christoph</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px 10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0 10.0px 10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 17. September 2022 um 16:39 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin@gmx.at><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Doug Sanden" <gpugroup@gmail.com><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> x3d-public@web3d.org<br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [x3d-public] Fw: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div class="mail_android_message" style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.5em;">Hi Doug,<br/>
<br/>
Unfortunately, I am not aware of those technologies (Chromium, Electron, Webkit / WASM).</div>
<div class="mail_android_message" style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.5em;">Do you think, the picture could be easily adapted to introduce them (without naming concrete products/projects)?</div>
<div class="mail_android_message" style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.5em;">Would it be a big problem, if I asked you to do that update? I sent the .odg with the e-mail. You are free to use and modify it according to your will (let's say according to GPL license).<br/>
<br/>
Kind regards,<br/>
Christoph<br/>
<br/>
</div>
<div class="mail_android_quote" style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.3em;">Am 17.09.22, 15:26 schrieb GPU Group <gpugroup@gmail.com>:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.8ex 0.0pt 0.0pt 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">
<div>"Machine Based" could be "Native" or "Native Application"?
<div>Stacks not shown: </div>
<div>- Chromium native plugin (desktop DX,OGL)</div>
<div>- Electron (Chromium+Node.js html+css: chromium webgl)</div>
<div>- Webkit / WASM (web browser hosted native code: webgl)</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 7:10 AM Christoph Valentin <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">
<div>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Trying a beautification..............still just a suggestion / draft / "brain fart".............</div>
<div> </div>
<div><img src="Attachment/Y2lkOjE4MzRiOTQ1OTU5YzIwNGJmY2My"/></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px 10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0.0px 10.0px 10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 10.0px;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 17. September 2022 um 14:14 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>><br/>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org'; return false;" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "Kevin" <<a href="mailto:klw71@yahoo.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:klw71@yahoo.com'; return false;" target="_blank">klw71@yahoo.com</a>>, "Mehdin Masinovic" <<a href="mailto:mehdin.masinovic2@gmail.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:mehdin.masinovic2@gmail.com'; return false;" target="_blank">mehdin.masinovic2@gmail.com</a>>, "Markus Sonntag" <<a href="mailto:markus.sonntag@tmo.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:markus.sonntag@tmo.at'; return false;" target="_blank">markus.sonntag@tmo.at</a>><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Fw: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Increment v0.2......</div>
<div> </div>
<div><img src="Attachment/Y2lkOjE4MzRiOTQ1OTU5YzIwNGJmY2Mx"/></div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>All the best</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px 10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0.0px 10.0px 10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 10.0px;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 17. September 2022 um 13:41 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>><br/>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org'; return false;" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "Kevin" <<a href="mailto:klw71@yahoo.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:klw71@yahoo.com'; return false;" target="_blank">klw71@yahoo.com</a>>, "Mehdin Masinovic" <<a href="mailto:mehdin.masinovic2@gmail.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:mehdin.masinovic2@gmail.com'; return false;" target="_blank">mehdin.masinovic2@gmail.com</a>>, "Markus Sonntag" <<a href="mailto:markus.sonntag@tmo.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:markus.sonntag@tmo.at'; return false;" target="_blank">markus.sonntag@tmo.at</a>><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> [x3d-public] Fw: Potential X3D Stack of APIs and Software - Aw: Re: X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.5em;">Instant correction:<br/>
<br/>
Should replace "Hardware" by "Machine" (can be a virtual machine)<br/>
<br/>
--<br/>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.</div>
<div style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.3em;">Am 17.09.22, 11:21 schrieb Christoph Valentin <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>>:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.8ex 0.0pt 0.0pt 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>Hi John, Hi Don,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Sorry for my late reaction.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What do you think about this?</div>
<div> </div>
<div><img src="http://Attachment/Y2lkOjMyMjM5M2IzNzAwOWQ4YWU3NDgyM2IxZWM4NWY0OTlhYmI5Y2JjZTQ5NzhmMDE5MzY4ODJlYTI2YjE3MmZiMTA"/></div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>Kind regards,</div>
<div>Christoph</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px 10.0px;padding: 10.0px 0.0px 10.0px 10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 10.0px;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 16. September 2022 um 18:05 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "John Carlson" <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com'; return false;" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Christoph Valentin" <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "X3D Public Mailing List (<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org'; return false;" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>)" <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org'; return false;" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>, "Don Brutzman" <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:brutzman@nps.edu'; return false;" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [x3d-public] X3D agenda 16 SEP 2022: Mantis issues, X3D-glTF comparison, Web3D Roadmap, X3D Web Stack diagrams</div>
<div>
<div>Doug Sanden suggested we include Web Assembly (WASM). Presumably it would be compiling an X3D Browser. I am not sure if we are going to compile X3D applications to WASM, but it's a nice thought!</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 3:00 PM Christoph Valentin <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">
<div>
<div style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.5em;">Hi all,<br/>
<br/>
Sorry for my "brain farts", but one silly idea.<br/>
<br/>
If X3D is ONE standard (for WebGL, OpenGL and DirectX)<br/>
and if X3D is backwards compatible with VRML worlds,<br/>
and if some future development (which need not carry the name "X3D") will be backwards compatible with X3D,<br/>
<br/>
then,<br/>
<br/>
why shouldn't we draw another contiguous block below the "X3D Application" and call this block<br/>
<br/>
"Web3D Browser (Web Based, OpenGL based, DirectX based, ......)".<br/>
<br/>
Kr,<br/>
CP<br/>
<br/>
--<br/>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.</div>
<div style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.3em;">
<div>Am 15.09.22, 21:22 schrieb Christoph Valentin <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>>:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.8ex 0.0pt 0.0pt 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">
<div style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.5em;">Hi John<br/>
<br/>
1) You mean?<br/>
<br/>
-. HTML instead of HTML Browser<br/>
- concrete X3D engines instead of "X3D Engine" (why are X_ITE and X3DOM listed, standalone X3D engines are not listed by name?).<br/>
<br/>
2) One question to all:<br/>
The "X3D Application" (I would rather call it "Web3D Application") is a contiguous block above "both worlds".<br/>
<br/>
Are we all on the same page, what this means? Not the provider of the application, but the user of the application selects which X3D browser to use?<br/>
<br/>
Kr,<br/>
Christoph<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
--<br/>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.</div>
<div style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.3em;">Am 15.09.22, 21:09 schrieb John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com'; return false;" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.8ex 0.0pt 0.0pt 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">
<div>More likely, a combined term would be API?</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 2:04 PM Christoph Valentin <<a href="mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at'; return false;" target="_blank">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">
<div>
<div style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.5em;">Hi,<br/>
<br/>
One small remark about x3d web stack.<br/>
<br/>
The picture uses two kinds of blocks<br/>
1. Software entities (Browser, Engine, OS, ...)<br/>
2. Standards (WebGL, OpenGL, ...)<br/>
<br/>
Couldn't we write software entities instead of standards (e.g. WebGL is implemented by JavaScript engines)?<br/>
<br/>
Kr<br/>
<br/>
--<br/>
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.</div>
<div style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.3em;">
<div>Am 15.09.22, 20:49 schrieb "Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)" <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:brutzman@nps.edu'; return false;" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>>:</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="line-height: 1;padding: 0.3em;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0.8ex 0.0pt 0.0pt 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1.0ex;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">[corrected agenda follows, apologies for prior runaway email]</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There will be a meeting of X3D Working Group on Friday 29 July 2022 at 09-10 pacific. Connection information and topics follow.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<ul style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="disc">
<li><a href="https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09" target="_blank">https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09</a></li>
<li><a href="https://zoom.us/j/148206572" target="_blank">https://zoom.us/j/148206572</a> Password 483805</li>
<li><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information</a></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<ol start="0" style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="1">
<li>Agenda review</li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<ol start="1" style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="1">
<li>Good progress in Design Printing Scanning call led to two new Mantis issues for possible comment:</li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<ol start="1" style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="a">
<li style="margin-left: 0.0in;">Mantis <span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;background-color: rgb(243,243,243);color: black;">1400: add Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) to recommended image formats for ImageTexture</span></li>
</ol>
<p><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1400" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1400</a></p>
<p> </p>
<ol start="2" style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="a">
<li style="margin-left: 0.0in;">Mantis <span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;background-color: rgb(243,243,243);color: black;">1401: aligning X3D4 LineProperties with Quality Information Framework (QIF) specification</span></li>
</ol>
<p><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1401" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1401</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<ol start="2" style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="1">
<li>Any further improvements to X3D-glTF comparison? Excellent progress so far, this is a valuable review.</li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<ul style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="disc">
<li style="margin-left: 0.0in;">Features Comparison X3D 4.0 and glTF 2.0</li>
<li style="margin-left: 0.0in;"><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0DnRtg33AuOA_aSl70L41Gq5m6TFt4t" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x0DnRtg33AuOA_aSl70L41Gq5m6TFt4t</a></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<ol start="3" style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="1">
<li>Reviewing Web3D Roadmap, Anita and Communications Team made some good edits today.</li>
</ol>
<p style="margin-left: 0.25in;"> </p>
<ul style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="disc">
<li style="margin-left: 0.0in;"><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1jwY0JeYyvA8aW-e-Q06GINQkJS7b7S8jgjpJZGDjl0I/edit#slide=id.p3" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1jwY0JeYyvA8aW-e-Q06GINQkJS7b7S8jgjpJZGDjl0I/edit#slide=id.p3</a></li>
</ul>
<p style="margin-left: 0.25in;"> </p>
<ol start="4" style="margin-top: 0.0in;" type="1">
<li>Considering further refactoring of X3D Web Stack diagrams (three variations attached)</li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Onward we go…</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: "Courier New";"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: "Courier New";">all the best, Don</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: "Courier New";">-- </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: "Courier New";">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" onclick="parent.window.location.href='mailto:brutzman@nps.edu'; return false;" style="font-family: "Courier New";" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: "Courier New";">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: "Courier New";">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span> <span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: "Courier New";"><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" style="font-family: "Courier New";" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
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