<div dir="auto">If we want to add and remove avatars from the scene, how is that done? Standard SAI?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Do we have to solve the subjective/objective problem with regards to LOA—an avatar looks different on your screen compared to mine. How does this impact sign language? Maybe a disabled person’s browser supports different LOAs than typical person’s browser, and translation is provided through closed caption. How do we differentiate the person in closed caption?</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 12:32 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><p class="MsoNormal">[Corrected erroneous agenda date: today is Friday 21 October 2022]<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Attendees: Bill Benman, William Glascoe, Anita Havele, Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.<u></u><u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1"><li><b>Web3D 2022 Conference</b>, in-person and online registration available<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Web3D 2022 from 2-4 November 2022 Evry (Paris), France. The conference is a hybrid event - on-line and in-person. Don't miss this opportunity to learn more about applications and research trends of 3D on the Web! This year’s theme is “The Metaverse” with emphasize on the interoperability of interactive 3D worlds. Keynote speakers: Marc Petit, Epic Games, Nicholas Polys, Web3D Consortium, and Dr. Michael Zyda, Founding Director of USC’s Computer Science Games Program along with presentations from other industry leaders and visionaries. Conference Highlights: Keynote Speakers, Papers, Posters, Tutorials, Workshops, Panel Session and more.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/news-story/web3d-2022-registration-open" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/news-story/web3d-2022-registration-open</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://web3d.siggraph.org" target="_blank">https://web3d.siggraph.org</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Keynote speakers</b> are especially great:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Web3D 2022 Conference is nearly here! 2-4 Novembre 2022 in Paris<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://web3d.siggraph.org/#keynote" target="_blank">https://web3d.siggraph.org/#keynote</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Marc Petit – VP, Unreal Engine – Epic Games<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">As VP of the Unreal Engine Ecosystem, Marc oversees the growth of Epic Games’ Unreal Engine business into all markets including game development but also film, television, AEC and manufacturing. Prior to joining Epic Games in mid-2016, Marc was a partner and Entrepreneur-In-Residence at XPND Capital, a Montreal-based investment fund where he co-founded and launched Taxelco, a sustainable urban transportation company.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Dr. Nicholas Polys – President, Web3D Consortium <u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Nicholas F. Polys is Director of Visual Computing with Virginia Tech Research Computing Group and Affiliate Research Professor in the Department of Computer Science. He has developed interactive 3D graphic content and systems for over 24 years. His research interests lie at the center of graphics and Human Computer Interaction: the intersection of visualization, virtual environments, and perception.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Dr. Michael Zyda – Founding Director of USC’s Computer Science Games Program<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Michael Zyda is a Professor of Engineering Practice and was the Founding Director of USC’s Computer Science Games Program in the USC Department of Computer Science. At USC, he founded the Computer Science Games Program and the year-long advanced game projects course that forms the core of USC Games and took that program from no program to the #1 Games program in the world. That program has been rated #1 by the Princeton Review for ten of the last eleven years.<u></u><u></u></li></ul><div style="border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ol style="margin-top:0in" start="2" type="1"><li><b>X3D4 international balloting continues. </b>Yesterday Web3D Consortium voted at INCITS.<u></u><u></u></li></ol><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">As a voting member of U.S. National Standards Body @INCITS and a Class A Liaison at @isostandards, the @Web3DConsortium is happy to vote for approving and advancing #X3D 4.0 Architecture as a Draft International Standard (DIS).<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1582763030563069952" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1582763030563069952</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1582763030563069952/photo/1" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/1582763030563069952/photo/1</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://web3d.org/x3d4" target="_blank">https://web3d.org/x3d4</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><div style="border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ol style="margin-top:0in" start="3" type="1"><li><b>Avatar discussion</b>: we had a lively talk together, plenty of thought that people are thinking. Also reviewed (and exponentially expanded!) possible paths for X3D Working Group.<u></u><u></u></li></ol><div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i>(draft)</i> Avatar Strategy: Open, Interoperable, Personal, Secure, Diverse<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps not one-size-fits-all standardized definition for an explicit “Avatar” node is provided in X3D4 and Humanoid Animation, but please let’s be clear…<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">We Can Do It!! Complete flexibility is already available in X3D for anyone to display whatever kind of avatar they want in 3D virtual environments.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">A tremendous range of alternatives are possible, the “X” in “X3D” is Extensible. Vive la difference!<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">The Humanoid Animation (HAnim) Standard lets an avatar vary from any kind of character (8 arms, whatever) to medically accurate human skeletons.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Realism is interesting but actually optional, relating to the user context. Realistic clothes are difficult (soft-body physics) and super valuable, for one example.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Clothing and fashion are not fantasy role playing… or are they?!?!<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Levels of Articulation (LOA) and (proposed) Levels of Expression (LOE) are powerful ways to scale up fidelity with consistent-subset fidelity.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Multiple powerful Web3D X3D VRML compatible avatar designs to date:<u></u><u></u></li></ul><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="circle"><li style="margin-left:0in">3DMD <a href="https://3dmd.com" target="_blank">https://3dmd.com</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Silhouette Avatars by IVN, <a href="https://ivn.net" target="_blank">https://ivn.net</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Cybertown <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberTown" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberTown</a> <u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">BitManagement Avatar Studio <a href="https://www.bitmanagement.com/en/press/avatar-web" target="_blank">https://www.bitmanagement.com/en/press/avatar-web</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">VCom3D humans for sign language and training, <a href="https://vcom3d.com" target="_blank">https://vcom3d.com</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Body scanning: Size Stream <a href="https://sizestream.com" target="_blank">https://sizestream.com</a> and TC2 <a href="https://www.tc2.com" target="_blank">https://www.tc2.com</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.donmccurdy.com/2017/11/06/creating-animated-gltf-characters-with-mixamo-and-blender" target="_blank">https://www.donmccurdy.com/2017/11/06/creating-animated-gltf-characters-with-mixamo-and-blender</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.pluralsight.com/blog/film-games/key-rigging-terms-get-moving" target="_blank">https://www.pluralsight.com/blog/film-games/key-rigging-terms-get-moving</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://iaspace.zhdk.ch/wiki/blender-and-makehuman" target="_blank">https://iaspace.zhdk.ch/wiki/blender-and-makehuman</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Many many many (uh, many manys) more… we should spin off this list, who wants to create a page?<u></u><u></u></li></ul></ul><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Metadata for identity, authentication for secure digital signature, and strong privacy of some data by encryption is possible.<u></u><u></u></li></ul><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Composing 3D scans and motion-capture (mocap) data for full avatar realism remains both tedious and really interesting. Can our alignment of HAnimMotion node with BVH greatly simplify that heavy-duty process?<u></u><u></u></li></ul><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Can we repurpose and retarget such data? Sure, interesting progress continues on this challenge.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">X3D includes multiple levels of detail (LOD) if progressive avatar fidelity desired, this is essential for hugely scalable worlds.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Some of the first avatars ever were first shared using Virtual Reality Modeling Language over two decades ago.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">The VRML97 Duck exemplified “if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, and acts like a duck, then maybe it is a duck…”<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Education will be important, much variation is still going on.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Digital Twin technologies are maturing with growing relevance<u></u><u></u></li></ul><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">As best practices for avatar data structures can encourage interoperability and interaction that users want, we can show and test it.<u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">X3D Working Group intends to demonstrate whatever avatar definitions might emerge and get agreed upon by Metaverse Standards Forum (MSF). We expect to follow our usual best practices to show full matching Implementation and Evaluation using X3D. Comparing approaches and learning further what avatar designs work well is very informative.<u></u><u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">No big decisions today… just thinking about X3D Working Group and community strategies for going forward.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Wow, so many ideas!! All responses welcome, of course. Also hoping that this growing list helps advance dialog in Paris at Web3D 2022 Conference.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Looking into farther future: as ever, thinking about what new technology might go into an X3D4.1 is based on ideas by Web3D Consortium members and community, recommendations by X3D Working Group based on Implementation and Evaluation, and eventually review and approval by Web3D Consortium Board of Directors (BoD) prior to submission to International Standards Organization (ISO).<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">No member-only restricted information is included in these minutes.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Laissez les bons temps rouler, tout le monde. Have fun with X3D, Human Animation and Avatars! 8)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">all the best, Don<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">-- <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 20, 2022 9:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> X3D Public Mailing List (<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>) <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:h-anim@web3d.org" target="_blank">h-anim@web3d.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:consortium@web3d.org" target="_blank">consortium@web3d.org</a>; <a href="mailto:bod@web3d.org" target="_blank">bod@web3d.org</a>; Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> X3D4 Working Group agenda, 20 OCT 2022: discuss possible Avatar strategy<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">X3D Working Group meets weekly for continued advancement of the X3D4 Specifications.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Meeting time 09-1000 pacific, each Friday<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09" target="_blank">https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09</a> <u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://zoom.us/j/148206572" target="_blank">https://zoom.us/j/148206572</a> Password 483805 <u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Here is a “new” proposed strategy, trying to say crisply the many essential ideas that are well known already by active participants in the X3D community.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i>(draft)</i> Avatar Strategy: Open, Interoperable, Personal, Secure<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">No standardized definition for “avatars” is provided in X3D4, but…<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Many alternatives are possible, the “X” in “X3D” is Extensible. Vive la difference!<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">X3D includes multiple levels of detail (LOD) if progressive avatar fidelity desired, this is essential for hugely scalable worlds.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Most powerful Web3D example design to date: Silhouette Avatars by IVN, <a href="https://ivn.net" target="_blank">https://ivn.net</a><u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Metadata for identity, secure digital signature and even encryption is possible.<u></u><u></u></li></ul><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Composing 3D scans and motion-capture (mocap) data for full avatar realism remains really interesting! Interesting progress continues on this challenge.<u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">X3D Working Group intends to demonstrate whatever avatar definitions are agreed upon by Metaverse Standards Forum. We expect to show full matching Implementation and Evaluation using X3D, learning further what avatar designs work well.<u></u><u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Let’s discuss please. All inputs and discussion welcome.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Corresponding Web3D member-only draft slideset available at<u></u><u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Representing Metaverse Humans with Open Standards<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Humanoid Animation (HAnim) and X3D4 ISO Specification Support<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">Web3D Consortium Communications Team<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13yAhoU9h7Buy5fUjSpPoOHYVJ6dgJDYulDS9Ze8na4M/edit#slide=id.p" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13yAhoU9h7Buy5fUjSpPoOHYVJ6dgJDYulDS9Ze8na4M/edit#slide=id.p</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Membership has value!<u></u><u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li style="margin-left:0in">Join the Web3D Consortium<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in">The Web3D Consortium is a non-profit group open to industry, academic, government and individual members.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin-left:0in"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/join" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/join</a><u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Have fun with X3D, Human Animation and Avatars! 8)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">all the best, Don<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">-- <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, Navy robotics https://</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank">faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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