<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div><div><div>It's fine to convert a primitive like a box, sphere or cone to an IndexedFaceSet, but there are some caveats: because an IndexedFaceSet is the Swiss army knife of geometry nodes, it's a bit slow at generating a drawable form of its geometry, because all polygons in the set have to be triangulated first.</div><div><br></div><div>But there are other nodes that can be built faster. The best would be to use a TriangleSet or an IndexedTriangeSet. These nodes can be built much faster.</div><div><br></div><div>
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Holger Seelig</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Leipzig, Germany</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">holger.seelig@yahoo.de</div><div>https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/</div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><br></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Am 24.04.2023 um 01:58 schrieb Joseph D Williams <joedwil@earthlink.net>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Next, If I have Transform scale 2 2 2 Shape Box defaults then the browser will multiply each point coordinate of the box by 2 2 2 and draw those points. Again, the Box points will not appear in the user code and it would be the same as Transform defaults Shape Box 2. If you had Transform translation 2 2 2 Shape Box defaults then the browser would move each box point 2 2 2 and draw them.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">All this happens when the user draws a shape somewhere in some coordinate space then actually wants it drawn in another coordinate space.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">For instance Transform translation 5 3 2 scale 0.2 0.2 0.2 Shape IFS geometry drawn to a scale 40 times the target coordinate space and needs to get moved to appear in the correct location of the target coordinate space for viewing.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Now the coordinates of the points get scaled and then moved. If the browser does it right it is the same as if the points had been drawn directly in the target space.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Joe</div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; border: medium; padding: 0in;"><b>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">Joseph D Williams</a><br><b>Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Sunday, April 23, 2023 4:18 PM<br><b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">John Carlson</a><br><b>Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [x3d-public] Tessellation…convert to IFS?</div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;"><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Understood, Joe! <o:p></o:p></li></ul><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Fine. Are you sure you see how we drew that part of a box? The coordinates of the points and how to make triangles?<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">There is a default 0 0 0 for the root scene. You are not really supposed to draw in this space but recommended to have a Group or Transform to hold geometry. If I say Transform defaults, Shape Box defaults then I get a box 1x1x1 centered at 0 0 0 in ancestor space so the thing should be hanging there around the middle of the scene. For other standard shapes, when the user asks for a cone, he will expect standard cone, but a cone that is not carefully specced out but will probably consist of about what 20 to 50 points. If the user wants more detail or less points then it is fairly easy diyofs in basic IFS user code.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Joe<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">John Carlson</a><br><b>Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Saturday, April 22, 2023 6:35 PM<br><b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">Joseph D Williams</a><br><b>Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">GPU Group</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [x3d-public] Tessellation…convert to IFS?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Understood, Joe! My issue is what do we do with sphere coordinates when transforms are multiplied out and deleted? It would seem natural to replace non-coordinate shapes with some kind of shape set, whether indexed or not (X3D JSON to STL code does this). Especially something where triangles must share edges. So yes, in the case of Sphere, Box and other non-coordinate shapes, the user code should change.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I think the solution may be to retain lowest level transforms in the scene in order to maintain shapes like spheres, cones, cylinders, etc. in user code. Then, do we need to apply the transforms to geometry?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Joe, it seems like you’re leaning towards changing the shape user code to sets? This is getting more and more like X3D JSON to STL, we just need to support different output formats and additional shapes. Should we translate to glTF instead of STL?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Doug, this is primarily to produce a standardized human model.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">John<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 7:03 PM Joseph D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; border-style: none none none solid; border-color: currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204, 204, 204); border-image: none; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Also note there are several ways to represent a shape in x3d. If the name includes Indexed then the user code includes the coordinates for the points and the sets of coordindex numbers that tell the browser how to make the triangles.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Some styles of shapes do not require the user to supply coordIndex, then the points are default auto-indexed into triangles by a standardized formula depending on name and included user code for points.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">So, when you say shape Sphere then the browser encodes that depending on its internal spec sphere.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">You can see the result in a browser that can just show the points or triangles of the shape sphere otherwise it will appear as a solid but the details of the actual coordinates of points and tessellation (indexing) of those points will not appear in the user code because what does the user care about what the browser uses to create your Sphere? .<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">So, for the default shape Box, probably uses two triangles per side.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I think there is x3d Shape user code to present a box in both indexed and auto-indexed form.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Here is classic-style user code with lots of defaults for one side of a box.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">DEF boxfront Shape {<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> appearance Appearance {<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> material Material { }<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> texture ImageTexture {<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> url [ "textures/boxfront.jpg" ]<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> }<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> }<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> geometry IndexedFaceSet {<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> coordIndex [ 0 1 2 3 -1 ]<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> coord Coordinate {<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> point [ -1 -1 1, 1 -1 1, 1 1 1, -1 1 1 ]<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> }<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> texCoordIndex [ 0 1 2 3 -1 ]<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> texCoord TextureCoordinate {<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> point [ 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 ]<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> }<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> }<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">}<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Joe<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-color: currentcolor;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">GPU Group</a><br><b>Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Saturday, April 22, 2023 2:33 PM<br><b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">John Carlson</a><br><b>Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [x3d-public] Tessellation…convert to IFS?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Depends what you're doing. Assuming you're starting with a point cloud, if you're tessellating something almost flat, and with irregular points, then you can use something like Delaunay algorithm to optimize the edges between points to give triangles that are more equi-angular.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If you are on a 3D dimensional surface, but know its close to being convex -- like a sphere or cube -- then you can move the planar math around a spherical center, and crop points in the distance / on the other side of center when triangulating. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Or you can remove and add points from a pre-triangulated sphere (I just made this up). Looking orthogonally at an existing triangle on your sphere, add a point from your point cloud, to the appropriate triangle, based on its yaw and pitch, or latitude, longitude, while ignoring its radius/height. When you have all your points added, then start removing the sphere's points. After each step of adding (or removing sphere points at the end), do Delaunay recursive triangle swaps on the local plane. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Or ask ChatGPT - it might know.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">-Doug<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 3:05 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; border-style: none none none solid; border-color: currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor windowtext; border-image: none; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 9.6pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">When one is tessellating a shape, like Box, is it typical to convert to IFS?<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 9.6pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 9.6pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 9.6pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 9.6pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">John<o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 9.6pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><o:p></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0in 4.8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; 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