<div dir="auto">Joe, in a text editor, to move the decimal point for 150+ numbers is inhumane. If you’ve got a macro for it, please share.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">And you would have to do this each time you generate a file.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Be my guest.</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 1:45 PM Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Joe > We are not using it that way because we will always interpolate. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">"always" meaning realtime may allow interpolating between key times, even if keyframes are provided at standard video/film frame rates. It is typical that through good use of interpolation, key times and keyValues can and should be much reduced.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Another issue is what to do when the dimensions for hanim model like skeleton or skin are given in cm and HAnim wants m. One solution is to simply scale by 0.01 in the user code. As you will probably see when you try to animate the thing lthat the rescale solution was too simple. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">But wait, I didn't forehead slaps when I said just move the decimal point instead of multiplying by 0.01 (to get m from cm). Recall that in authortime, which is when you want to make the conversion, we have a text file. So, for any case, moving the decimal point using a text editor in authortime is more accurate in terms of representing the author's intent, than multiply by 0.01 in runtime. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
</div>
<div style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0px 10px 15px;margin:0px;border-left-color:rgb(170,170,170)">
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<div style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0px 10px 15px;margin:0px;border-left-color:rgb(170,170,170)">
<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Oct 13, 2023 6:17 PM<br>To: Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>><br>Cc: GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>>, X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Units for BVH vs HAnimMotion.values</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<div dir="ltr">> Agreed that BVH/HAnimMotion should be converted to Interpolators, hence my plea for shared keys between Interpolators. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Don't concern yourself about the repetition. It is what it is. We just have to deal with it.The bch will probably include a key for each video frame since one objective is to not do any interpolation. We are not using it that way because we will always interpolate. </div>
<div dir="ltr">The next step to make it usable is to process to remove extra keys and keyvalues. If small frame interval, then probably lots of extra frames when we can interpolate.</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">> Should I look into a single MetadataFloat for all Interpolators keys? </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">No because the right way, without a script is to justeliminate unneeded keys andkeyvalues. </div>
<div dir="ltr">Maybe a different project task than getting Grampsrunning. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">> Programming a script that won't work in view3dscene? </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Not a real help now.</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">> Mot Using a PROTO that may not work across all Interpolator node types? Doing a PROTO per Interpolator type and animation sequence? How many ProtoInstances do you want to see in your animation code? Abandoning HAnimMotion as unworkable seems reasonable, except for bloat. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Just don't worry about that bloat for now.</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Joe </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 7:07 PM Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" rel="noopener" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif">> <span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;white-space:normal;float:none;display:inline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Apparently BVH uses degrees for rotations.</span> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif">It is not specified. There is no spec. Degrees do not appear in any x3d user code, or any where else except these too simple to use directly random examples in random bvh archives, or defult spitout of some glorified animation tool. char. Literally any animation tool worth having does not do them in terms of degrees, junk coding. If tool cannot export quaternions or axis-angle it is not worth using. And just because the helpdesk doesn't know about it doesn't mean they don't have it.</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif">The conversion from typical bvh to axis-angle is in Part 2.</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Just do the conversion and don't worry about using angles anymore. There is no standard way to interpolate angles, and for good reason. </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif">A bvh file is NOT x3d user code, it is just a partially documented importation that may be adapted for use with x3d HAnim. This is true no matter if it comes from some instructor-student archive somewhere on the web, or hot off the press to represent some current character animation tool generated keyframes. Even if pretty-printed with x3d it is not x3d. </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Just convert the stuff and apply to skeleton. Don't deal with the angles bs except to convert it to x3d interpolators. It is just an import format, not standard, and not x3d. </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Just convert for most fun,</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Joe</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </p>
</div>
<div style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0px 10px 15px;margin:0px;border-left-color:rgb(170,170,170)">
<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" rel="noopener" target="_blank">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Oct 13, 2023 12:48 PM<br>To: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" rel="noopener" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Units for BVH vs HAnimMotion.values</p>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1"> </p>
<div dir="ltr">I have the same question and posted it on h-anim. Might help to have some options and analysis of the options.
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0px 10px 15px;margin:0px;border-left-color:rgb(170,170,170)"><div style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0px 10px 15px;margin:0px;border-left-color:rgb(170,170,170)"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px 0px 10px 15px;margin:0px;border-left-color:rgb(170,170,170)"><div dir="ltr"><div>1. Units statement </div>
<div>Analysis: that would apply to all rotations in the file, including other scenery Transform rotations which is awkward for most workflows</div>
<div>2. Motion.values in radians by default</div>
<div>Analysis: will break some scene example data such as HAnim Annex D Motion.values which is in degrees</div>
<div>- would need to update Annex D</div>
<div>3. Motion.values in radians by default, and browsers can support degrees with a field </div>
<div>Motion {</div>
<div>SFString [] angleUnits 'RADIANS' ['RADIANS', 'DEGREES']</div>
<div>//or</div>
<div>SFBool [] angleUnitsDegrees FALSE</div>
<div>}</div>
<div>Analysis: would still break the Annex D example which doesn't show any Motion field for angle units, and would need to update the specification for Motion to include an additional field.</div>
<div>4. export in degrees, and put an export option on the export option panel for Motion data in [degrees, radians] so browsers will still work either way until a more permanent solution such as 2 or 3.</div>
<div>Q. how many web3d browsers have implemented HAnimMotion and angle units did you use for Motion.values ?</div>
<div>-Doug</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 13, 2023 at 12:44 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" rel="noopener" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">Apparently BVH uses degrees for rotations. Units for HAnimMotion should use radians unless otherwise specified in a UNIT statement, AFAIK.
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Comments?</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks!</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">John </div>
_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" rel="noopener" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1"> </p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1"> </p>
</div>
<p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1"> </p></blockquote></div></div>