<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">me too Holger. </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">Not a copy but the actual DEFed node. Can result in same node with multiple parents. </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">Also, the scope is important.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">Also the order of appearance is important.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">However, the HAnim DEF/USE for the skinCoord seems to be slightly different.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">I'm not sure how different it is for the coord DEF and theskinCoord USE but I observed view3dscene to work with the skinCoord USE before the coord DEF.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">Also different is the use of USE in joints field. Can the joints field appear before the skeleton field?</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">Anyway, I am still convinced that the joints field is not specified correctly. The naming conventions are strict enough in HAnim that the joints field only needs to contain list of each Joint name attribute, that is just a simple list of Joint names instead of the USE. By the spec if you know the name of the Joint and the name of the Humanoid, then you can determine the DEF string. What does any browser do with the list of USE strings in the joints field? To me the list of USEs is just confusing. </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">Thanks,</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">Joe</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
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<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John Carlson <yottzumm@gmail.com><br>Sent: Oct 31, 2023 2:28 PM<br>To: Holger Seelig <holger.seelig@yahoo.de><br>Cc: Joe D Williams <joedwil@earthlink.net>, X3D <x3d-public@web3d.org><br>Subject: Re: [x3d-public] What are valid children of HAnimHumanoid.skin?</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<div dir="auto">Thanks, Holger, I concur.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 3:56 PM Holger Seelig <<a href="mailto:holger.seelig@yahoo.de">holger.seelig@yahoo.de</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="line-break: after-white-space;">
<div>The specification is very clear at this point:</div>
<a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS.proof/Part01/concepts.html#DEF_USE_Semantics" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS.proof/Part01/concepts.html#DEF_USE_Semantics</a><br id="m_6700773973895467573lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
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<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"> </div>
<div>
<div>4.4.3 DEF/USE semantics</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Node DEF names are limited in scope to a single X3D file, prototype definition, or string submitted to either CreateX3DFromString, CreateX3DFromStream, or CreateX3DFromURL X3D browser service (as specified in ISO/IEC 19775-2).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The USE statement does not create a copy of the node identified by a DEF name. Instead, the same node is inserted into the scene graph a second time, resulting in the node having multiple parents (see 4.3.5 Transformation hierarchy, for restrictions on self-referential nodes).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Node names shall be unique in the context within which the associated DEF name occurs.</div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"> </div>
</div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Best regards,</div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Holger</div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"> </div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;">--</div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Holger Seelig</div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Leipzig, Germany</div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"> </div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="mailto:holger.seelig@yahoo.de" target="_blank" rel="noopener">holger.seelig@yahoo.de</a></div>
<div style="color: #000000; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/</a></div>
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<div>Am 31.10.2023 um 21:44 schrieb Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>>:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">> To me, a definition is a DEF’ed field, and a USE field references the definition. </div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">The USE field creates a copy of the DEFed node at that location in the scenegraph. </div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">The general rule is that in the user code, DEF must appear before the USE. </div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">To x3d HAnim that (might) mean that the skin field must always appear before the skinCoord field. </div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">However, the application in x3d HAnim is slightly different in that the skinCoord field could consist of selected points from geometry(s) of Segment nodes, or from one or several geometry(s) of the skin field. Or, who really knows all of what skinCoords may contain? So, likely that it turns out that the skinCoord is really not accessed until everything else is done, then the actual skin field is built from data included or referenced by skinCoord.</div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">More testing (only view3dscene tested here so far) needed please but when I have used code with skinCoord USE appearing before coord DEF all seemed to work without complaint. Maybe for this case the USE is not actually needed until well after the DEF is processed. </div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">Thanks,</div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">Joe</div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
</div>
<div style="border-left: 1px solid #aaa; box-sizing: border-box; padding: 10px 0 10px 15px; margin: 0;">
<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Oct 30, 2023 9:02 PM<br>To: Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>><br>Cc: Brutzman Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a>>, X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [x3d-public] What are valid children of HAnimHumanoid.skin?</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<div dir="auto">Hi Joe,</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">I don’t get how your example lines up with the standard Don quoted “<span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">The </span><em style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 1rem; word-spacing: 1px; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">skin</em><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> field contains one or more indexed mesh definitions. Those indexed mesh definitions utilize the point and normal data that is defined within the </span><em style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 1rem; word-spacing: 1px; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">skinCoord</em><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> and </span><em style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 1rem; word-spacing: 1px; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">skinNormal</em><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">fields, respectively, of the </span><strong style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 1rem; word-spacing: 1px; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">Humanoid</strong><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> object.”</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">Maybe I’m dumb?</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">Can we take it down to a high school level instead of PhD?</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">Look at the JoeKick link I posted separately, it follows your example.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">Maybe the standards documentation could be clearer? Maybe Don’s quote is from somewhere else?</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">AFAIK, Gramps now follows what you have below, but some versions may be reversed as we were trying to figure it out in the Blender exporter.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">I don’t mind what is decided either way, and I would prefer your way and x3d.py to change, if it doesn’t support that order of output. If I seem a bit wishy-washy, it’s because I see that I am getting conflicting information, as far as I can tell.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">We can go back to DAGs and inventing DEF/USE on the fly, but I thought we were past that, and now we’re just trying to define order of fields, and/or whether the verbage the standard should change.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">To me, a definition is a DEF’ed field, and a USE field references the definition. But I haven’t read any glossaries.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">Thanks, I feel super dumb at this point.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;"> </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family: -apple-system,'Helvetica Neue'; word-spacing: 1px; float: none; display: inline!important; background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0); border-color: #757575; color: #757575;">John</span></div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 9:50 PM Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: #cccccc;">
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Hi John, </div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">skin [ <br> Shape { <br> geometry IndexedFaceSet { <br> coord DEF TheSkinCoord Coordinate { point [ ... ] ... } } ]</div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">then </div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">skinCoord USE TheSkinCoord </div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">So, not </div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">> "<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Yes, this means skinCoord DEF comes before skin Coordinate USE,"</span></div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">actually we want toDEF the coord Coordinate point then we can USE forskinCoord. </span></div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">The only place I have seen these reversed is the code for Gramps you sent and it worked anyway. </div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span>Joe</div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </p>
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<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Oct 30, 2023 6:27 PM<br>To: Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a>><br>Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [x3d-public] What are valid children of HAnimHumanoid.skin?</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;"> </p>
<div dir="auto">Yes, this means skinCoord DEF comes before skin Coordinate USE, which is the information I was looking for.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">At least this is my reading of the standard.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Joe, do you concur? The next thing to do is look at what’s done in the archive.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks,</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">John</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 12:04 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: #cccccc;">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please use latest url for X3D 4.0 Architecture:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc">
<li style="margin-left: 0in;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS.proof/Part01/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS.proof/Part01/</a><u></u><u></u></li>
<li style="margin-left: 0in;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS.proof/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimHumanoid" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-IS.proof/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimHumanoid</a><u></u><u></u></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">HAnimHumanoid : X3DChildNode, X3DBoundedObject {<u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> […]<u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> MFNode [in,out] skin [] [Group, LOD, Shape, Switch, Transform, IndexedFaceSet, IndexedFanSet, IndexedLineSet, IndexedQuadSet, IndexedTriangleSet, IndexedTriangleStripSet]<u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Further please note that the functional descriptions are provided in the HAnim 2.0 standard:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<li style="margin-left: 0in;">HAnim 2.0 Part 1: Humanoid animation (HAnim) architecture, 6 Object interfaces, 6.2 Humanoid<u></u><u></u></li>
<li style="margin-left: 0in;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/ObjectInterfaces.html#Humanoid" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/ObjectInterfaces.html#Humanoid</a><u></u><u></u></li>
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<p class="MsoNormal">“The <em>skin</em> field contains one or more indexed mesh definitions. Those indexed mesh definitions utilize the point and normal data that is defined within the <em>skinCoord</em> and <em>skinNormal</em> fields, respectively, of the <strong>Humanoid</strong> object. This field is defined as an generic type for which the specific representation is defined by each binding to a presentation system. <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/VRMLInterface.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Annex C VRML binding</a> contains a binding for VRML. <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/X3DInterface.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Annex D X3D binding</a> describes the Humanoid animation component of X3D specified in <a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/bibliography.html#I19775_1" target="_blank" rel="noopener">ISO/IEC 19775-1</a>.”<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">all the best, Don<u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">-- <u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br <a style="font-family: 'Courier New';" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149<u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics <a style="font-family: 'Courier New';" href="https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u><u style="font-family: 'Courier New';"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong>From:</strong> x3d-public <<a href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>> <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>GPU Group<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, October 29, 2023 5:56 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br><strong>Cc:</strong> X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [x3d-public] What are valid children of HAnimHumanoid.skin? argument for allowing containerFields in x3d.py<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimHumanoid" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V4.0/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimHumanoid</a> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">- skin <span style="font-size: 8.5pt;">[IndexedFaceSet, X3DGroupingNode, Shape]</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I haven't tried it but I don't see how freewrl could render a skin with bare IFS, it needs to be wrapped in at least a Shape, and HAnimHumanoid doesn't inherit from Shape<u></u><u></u></p>
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<pre style="margin-left: 18.75pt; font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: monospace;">HAnimHumanoid : X3DChildNode, X3DBoundedObject <u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 6:45 AM GPU Group <<a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">gpugroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">xml with no containerField > freeWRL: Group and Transform, and today I added Shape.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Basically whatever ends up in that skin field, freewrl renders as normal scenegraph, so you can have a transform hierarchy of skin chunks / shapes and freewrl doesn't mind. (It's the skeleton and coordinate field that changes the shape of anything that uses the same coordinates, and the scene author presumes there's no weird transforms between chunks, but freewrl doesn't enforce that).<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-Doug<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 4:24 AM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* I am specifically speaking of the lack of containerField in XML output from x3d.py. I also have issues with overuse of the “children”container fields in VRML. I am speaking of instances where view3dscene reports an error or does not show the scene (even trying tovrmlx3d would help). The problem stems from lack of testing on HAnim VRML and XML outputs from x3d.py. I could show Don an example, but he’s got a whole section of the archive devoted to examples which do show the same behavior when tested properly.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">One cannot just type in “containerField” in a python program and expect x3d.py to list it in output. I might be able to subclass, but that would require my own X3dToPython.xslt stylesheet.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">* Skin/shape is another topic in the email. See standard, where Shape is not mentioned under skin, rather, indexed mesh nodes are. There is no children field under Shape, but there’s a skin field under HAnimHumanoid. Skin has an MFNode field type, and has SFNode children, AFAIK. The question is whether these children should be Shapes or indexed meshes.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 2:16 PM Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">> </span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; background: repeat #e1e7f1;">argument for allowing containerFields in x3d.py</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">I don't understand. If no container fields then not able to do all of x3d. We had to use containerField for the admittedly rare instance where the default is not true. These are cases where looking up the containerField in schema is not enough. <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">Some are tricky, like skeleton where only the root Joint has to have the containerField as skeleton. <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">skin contains a Shape which does not have children.<u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">However we are investigating the idea of how to code LOD choices for skin. I think we already know how to do that for that for Segment geometry. <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">Thanks,<u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">Joe<u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"> <u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u><u style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"></u></span></div>
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<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Oct 26, 2023 10:08 AM<br>To: Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>>, X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>Subject: What are valid children of HAnimHumanoid.skin? argument for allowing containerFields in x3d.py<u></u><u></u></p>
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<pre style="margin-left: 18.75pt; font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: monospace;">From: <a style="font-family: monospace;" href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimHumanoid" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-DIS/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimHumanoid</span></a><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 18.75pt; font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: monospace;">I see:<u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 18.75pt; font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: monospace;">MFNode [in,out] skin [] [IndexedFaceSet, IndexedFanSet, IndexedQuadSet, IndexedTriangleSet, IndexedTriangleStripSet]<u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 18.75pt; font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: monospace;">And fromL <a style="font-family: monospace;" href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/ObjectInterfaces.html#Humanoid" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/ObjectInterfaces.html#Humanoid</a><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></span></pre>
<pre style="font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: monospace;">sequence<Object> skin [] [indexed mesh objects as defined by the representation]<u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></span></pre>
<pre style="font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: monospace;"> <u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></span></pre>
<pre style="font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: monospace;">But in actual practice, I see:<u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></span></pre>
<pre style="font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: monospace;"> <u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></span></pre>
<pre style="font-family: monospace;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: navy;">Shape</span> <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">DEF</span>='<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" title="bookmark link to Joe_Shape" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKick.html#Joe_Shape" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: maroon;">Joe_Shape</span></a>' <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">containerField</span>='<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: teal;">skin</span>'></span><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u><u style="font-family: monospace;"></u></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: navy;">Appearance</span> <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">DEF</span>='<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" title="bookmark link to Joe_skin_Appearance" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKick.html#Joe_skin_Appearance" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: maroon;">Joe_skin_Appearance</span></a>'> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: navy;">Material</span> <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">DEF</span>='<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" title="bookmark link to Joe_skin_Material" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKick.html#Joe_skin_Material" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: maroon;">Joe_skin_Material</span></a>' <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">diffuseColor</span>='<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: teal;">0.3 0.3 0.6</span>' <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">emissiveColor</span>='<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: teal;">0.3 0.3 0.6</span>'/><br><<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: navy;">ImageTexture</span> <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">DEF</span>='<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" title="bookmark link to JoeSkinImageTexture" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKick.html#JoeSkinImageTexture" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: maroon;">JoeSkinImageTexture</span></a>'<br> <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">url</span>=' "<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeBodyTexture29.png" target="_blank" rel="noopener">JoeBodyTexture29.png<span style="text-decoration: none; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><img id="m_6700773973895467573m_4733856421028338303m_-8807610679238523319_x0000_i1026" style="width: 1.3333in; height: 1.3333in; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" src="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeBodyTexture29.png" width="128" height="128" border="0"></span> </a>" "<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Characters/JoeBodyTexture29.png" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Characters/JoeBodyTexture29.png<span style="text-decoration: none; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><img id="m_6700773973895467573m_4733856421028338303m_-8807610679238523319_x0000_i1025" style="width: 1.3333in; height: 1.3333in; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" src="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Characters/JoeBodyTexture29.png" width="128" height="128" border="0"></span> </a>" ' /><a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" name="m_6700773973895467573_m_4733856421028338303_m_-8807610679238523319_m_7510167247552546186_m_-696901959981096"></a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; background: repeat #eeeeee;"><!-- <em style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">ROUTE</em> information for </span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; background: repeat #eeeeee; color: maroon;">KickTextureTransform</span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; background: repeat #eeeeee;"> node: [<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" title="go to this ROUTE" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKick.html#ROUTE_194" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><em style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">from</em> <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: maroon;">SkinInterpolator</span>.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">value_changed</span> <em style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">to</em> <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">rotation</span> </a>] --><br></span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: navy;">TextureTransform</span> <span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: green;">DEF</span>='<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" title="bookmark link to KickTextureTransform" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKick.html#KickTextureTransform" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; color: maroon;">KickTextureTransform</span></a>'/><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">From:<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKickIndex.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Skin/JoeKickIndex.html</a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">And <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<div style="margin-left: 18.75pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">skin [<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> DEF Joe_Shape Shape {<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> appearance DEF Joe_skin_Appearance Appearance {<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> material DEF Joe_skin_Material Material {<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> diffuseColor 0.3 0.3 0.6<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> emissiveColor 0.3 0.3 0.6<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> }<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> texture DEF JoeSkinImageTexture ImageTexture {<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> url [ "JoeBodyTexture29.png" "<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Characters/JoeBodyTexture29.png" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation/Characters/JoeBodyTexture29.png</a>" ]<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> }<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> textureTransform DEF KickTextureTransform TextureTransform {<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> }<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> }<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">==================================================<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">So it would seem like Shapes with an Indexed geometry is what we're aiming for in the standard as one of the possibly many children of the skin container field (note the space).<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">That is all okay, AFAIAC, just extremely confusing when deciding where to add containerFields in DOM documents.<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">For example, consider the below:<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <HAnimJoint USE='hanim_l_carpal_distal_interphalangeal_4'/><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <HAnimJoint USE='hanim_l_metacarpophalangeal_3'/><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <HAnimJoint USE='hanim_l_carpal_proximal_interphalangeal_3'/><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <HAnimJoint USE='hanim_l_carpal_distal_interphalangeal_3'/><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <HAnimJoint USE='hanim_l_metacarpophalangeal_2'/><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <HAnimJoint USE='hanim_l_carpal_proximal_interphalangeal_2'/><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <HAnimJoint USE='hanim_l_carpal_distal_interphalangeal_2'/><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">[ etc. ]<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">It may not be apparent, but X3DJSAIL complains about this. There's no containerField='joints', right? But I'm generating this code using x3d.py which doesn't allow me to list containerFields!<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">Grr! Here are some of the "brutzman" messages from X3DJSAI, which are valid. I really want to assign joints as a containerField, so perhaps I will just do it in X3DJSONLD.<u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> <u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> [apply] [error] X3DLoaderDOM: Parent-child node relationship not found! (parent HAnimHumanoid, child HAnimJoint, containerField='children') Please report this problem to <a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> [apply] [error] X3DLoaderDOM: Parent-child node relationship not found! (parent HAnimHumanoid, child HAnimJoint, containerField='children') Please report this problem to <a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> [apply] [error] X3DLoaderDOM: Parent-child node relationship not found! (parent HAnimHumanoid, child HAnimJoint, containerField='children') Please report this problem to <a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> [apply] [error] X3DLoaderDOM: Parent-child node relationship not found! (parent HAnimHumanoid, child HAnimJoint, containerField='children') Please report this problem to <a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> [apply] [error] X3DLoaderDOM: Parent-child node relationship not found! (parent HAnimHumanoid, child HAnimJoint, containerField='children') Please report this problem to <a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> [apply] [error] X3DLoaderDOM: Parent-child node relationship not found! (parent HAnimHumanoid, child HAnimJoint, containerField='children') Please report this problem to <a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> [apply] [error] X3DLoaderDOM: Parent-child node relationship not found! (parent HAnimHumanoid, child HAnimJoint, containerField='children') Please report this problem to <a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"> [apply] [error] X3DLoaderDOM: Parent-child node relationship not found! (parent HAnimHumanoid, child HAnimJoint, containerField='children') Please report this problem to <a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;" href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank" rel="noopener">brutzman@nps.edu</a><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u><u style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"></u></span></p>
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<div style="margin: 0.1rem 0px;"> <u></u><u></u></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;"> </p>
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<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
_______________________________________________<br>x3d-public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></div>
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<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>