<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">Thanks John, this is the most complete freestanding list outside the spec I know of. </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">When you see x y z it means there is no published dimension for that joint or site.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;">Joe</p>
</div>
<div class="elnk-inline-message-container" style="border-left: 1px solid #aaa; box-sizing: border-box; padding: 10px 0 10px 15px; margin: 0;">
<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John Carlson <yottzumm@gmail.com><br>Sent: Mar 16, 2024 3:30 PM<br>To: Carol McDonald <cemd2@comcast.net><br>Cc: Joe D Williams <joedwil@earthlink.net>, Katy Schildmeyer KS APPAREL DESIGN <katy@ksappareldesign.com>, X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public@web3d.org><br>Subject: Re: HAnim Features Points, 1-120 for your review</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Here's a change with r_metacarpal_phalanx_3 (was left)</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div>Joh</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 5:10 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">I found a small issue with the r_clavicale, I think. New version attached.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 4:56 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Here are some feature points we don't have a location for, from Joe's list. Anyone want to try for locations?</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div>I found these in the standards stuff I had table A.11. I guess Joe didn't think they were good for his hierarchy (attached with new values plugged in).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div> <td><span class="Code">l_metacarpal_phalanx_2</span></td></div>
<div> <td><span class="Code">r_tarsal_distal_phalanx_1_tip</span></td></div>
<div> <td><span class="Code">spine_2_lower_back</span></td></div>
<div> <td><span class="Code">supramenton</span></td></div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks!<br>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>#S1 (glabella x y z)</div>
<div>#S11 (adams_apple x y z)</div>
<div>#S116 (r_tarsal_distal_phalanx_1_tip x y z)</div>
<div>#S18 (l_axilla_posterior_folds x y z)</div>
<div>#S23 (r_axilla_posterior_folds x y z)</div>
<div>#S24 (spine_1_middle_back x y z)</div>
<div>#S25 (spine_2_lower_back x y z)</div>
<div>#S26 (waist_preferred_anterior x y z)</div>
<div>#S41 (l_suprapatella x y z)</div>
<div>#S45 (r_suprapatella x y z)</div>
<div>#S47 (l_tibiale x y z)</div>
<div>#S51 (r_tibiale x y z)</div>
<div>#S59 (r_metatarsal_phalanx_1 x y z)</div>
<div>#S60 (r_metatarsal_phalanx_5 x y z)</div>
<div>#S75 (l_metacarpal_phalanx_2 x y z)</div>
<div>#S76 (l_metacarpal_phalanx_3 x y z)</div>
<div>#S79 (l_metacarpal_phalanx_3 x y z)</div>
<div>#S85 (l_ectocanthus x y z)</div>
<div>#S86 (r_ectocanthus x y z)</div>
<div>#S87 (menton x y z)</div>
<div>#S88 (mesosternale x y z)</div>
<div>#S89 (opisthocranion x y z)</div>
<div>#S92 (rear_center_midsagittal_plane x y z)</div>
<div>#S93 (buttocks_standing_wall_contact_point x y z)</div>
<div>#S94 (l_chest_midsagittal_plane x y z)</div>
<div>#S95 (r_chest_midsagittal_plane x y z)</div>
<div>#S96 (l_bideltoid x y z)</div>
<div>#S97 (r_bideltoid x y z)</div>
<div>#Snn (segment_b_tip x y z)</div>
<div>#Sxx (l_eyeball_tip x y z)</div>
<div>#Sxx (l_eyebrow_tip x y z)</div>
<div>#Sxx (l_eyelid_tip x y z)</div>
<div>#Sxx (r_eyeball_tip x y z)</div>
<div>#Sxx (r_eyebrow_tip x y z)</div>
<div>#Sxx (r_eyelid_tip x y z)</div>
<div>#Sxx (tongue_tip x y z)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 10:58 AM Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">cemd2@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><u></u>
<div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Here is the attachment on the first 11 feature points. The site for the translations do not have points numbered so I added in that column. As you can see from this attachment - the feature points are independent of the joints as it does not matter which LOA that you choose. </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">But questions - during the animation - do the feature points move? How are they bound to the mesh and skin? If the skin (mesh) breaks during a movement - what happens to the feature point? </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Thanks </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Carol </span></div>
<blockquote>
<div>On 03/16/2024 7:08 AM PDT Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">cemd2@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">I have been looking into this. And I am agreeing with John's assessment. I will somehow need to get everything into Rhino for visualization and coding. </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">From John on March 14th. </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">I am thinking that humanoid_root and all other joint centers are relative to the LCS (local coordinate system) of the humanoid, which is 0, 0, 0 relative to any transforms outside the humanoid.<br></span>
<div>That's my best guess right now.</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;">
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">What is not noted on the General is the exact file or model for which these translations were built for. This means that the list of the translations on the website only valid for the humanoid model that they were obtained for, the distance of that model from the origin and are not appropriate for Gramps or any other model. </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">This means that for every joint center and every translation, it would be good to have reason for why is it located where it is. </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#General" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#General</a></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA2DefaultSiteTranslations" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA2DefaultSiteTranslations</a></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA3DefaultSiteTranslations" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA3DefaultSiteTranslations</a></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA4DefaultSiteTranslations" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA4DefaultSiteTranslations</a></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Is this the model for which the translations are built for? Can someone send me the proper link? Is this it? I will see if I can import it into Rhino 8. </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><span style="font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">HumanoidAnimation/Skin/Joe*.x3d </span></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;">Back to updating every 120 points currently listed as to recommendations of how to locate it and adding the additional feature points that I have requested. </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><a href="https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/FeaturePoints.html#FeaturePointsOnTheHumanBody" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/Architecture/FeaturePoints.html#FeaturePointsOnTheHumanBody</a></div>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;">
<div>Carol </div>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>On 03/16/2024 4:23 AM PDT John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 2:38 AM Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">> You can make the skin opaque to see that I'm really grabbing this from a HumanoidAnimation/Skin/Joe*.x3d example, just my own incantation of scripts to draw the humanoid geometry. I'll be checking those in soon</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">Great John,</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">I will check this out soon. </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">Any ideas for the 'virtual' feature points? </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">All Fine, </p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;">Joe</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>Joe, do you mean user drawn, not in current standard? User defined points? I have scripts for sites to place coordinates, but I don't have a way to get them into the hierarchy yet, so...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>John </div>
<blockquote>
<div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;"> </p>
</div>
<div style="border-left: 1px solid #aaaaaa; box-sizing: border-box; padding: 10px 0px 10px 15px; margin: 0px;">
<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Mar 15, 2024 12:11 AM<br>To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>, Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">cemd2@comcast.net</a>>, Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: HAnim Features Points, 1-120 for your review</p>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;"> </p>
<div dir="ltr">Carol, I'm discovering it makes a difference where you put the Transform in the HAnimSegment as to whether to reuse the center. I don't have something that doesn't put out warnings yet, or takes the Sites away from the Joints. Hmm!
<div> </div>
<div>My best Humanoid so far is Humanoid4J.x3d.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm going to get some sleep.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 12:53 AM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Good use of Billboard for annotated feature points
<div> </div>
<div>Please consider this a contribution to the Web3DConsortium examples. I release my copyright and licensing privileges, and give them copyright and licensing under the normal X3D resources example.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks to Joe and Don for good examples to draw from!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>No, I don't have any metadata yet. Let's set up a time and figure out who all contributed.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You can make the skin opaque to see that I'm really grabbing this from a HumanoidAnimation/Skin/Joe*.x3d example, just my own incantation of scripts to draw the humanoid geometry. I'll be checking those in soon.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>John</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0px; line-height: 1;"> </p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style="margin: 0.1rem 0; line-height: 1.0;"> </p>