<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">The default value for a field is either specified for each node type or the default value for Script or ComposedShader node custom fields is defined in <a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD/Part01/fieldTypes.html">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD/Part01/fieldTypes.html</a>. Mostly false, 0, „“, identity, ...<div><br></div><div>A proto instance will inherit its default values from the proto declaration its fields. Fields such as outputOnly will normally have a default value from fieldTypes.html.</div><div><br></div><div>There is an exception with X3DInterpolatorNode.value_changed:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD/Part01/components/interpolators.html#X3DInterpolatorNode">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD/Part01/components/interpolators.html#X3DInterpolatorNode</a></div><div><br></div><div>If an X3DInterpolatorNode value_changed outputOnly field is read before it receives any inputs, keyValue[0] is returned if keyValue is not empty...</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Holger</div><div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div>
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">--</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Holger Seelig</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Leipzig, Germany</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">holger.seelig@yahoo.de</div><div>https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/</div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Am 04.02.2025 um 19:26 schrieb Andreas Plesch via x3d-public <x3d-public@web3d.org>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div>Hi John, all,<br></div><div><br></div><div>It turns out that x3dom currently expects a default value for Proto fields even for outputOnly fields. This is due to how Proto fields are initialized. They always need to have a value. While the spec. does not require this, it seems still good practice to always define a default value in the ProtoInterface. There may be a case where an outputOnly field is used in ISing where a valid value would be expected. There may be other corner cases.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Here is your example with added default values for outputOnly fields:<br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/af5ff3148c1159f71d34fb78c1f63024/raw/b3d4470107ab74e301ed48448ab2a4f4154672e0/ManyClocks_John.x3d" target="_blank">https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/andreasplesch/af5ff3148c1159f71d34fb78c1f63024/raw/b3d4470107ab74e301ed48448ab2a4f4154672e0/ManyClocks_John.x3d</a></div><div><br></div><div>This could be fixed in x3dom, by always setting some default value. Is there a list of recommended defaults for each data type if no other source of defaults is available? For SFTime it seems to be -1.<br></div><div><br></div><div>-Andreas<br></div><div><br></div></div><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 7:39 AM Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi John,</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 12:48 AM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Andreas, "startTime" is an accessType outputOnly field, so why do I need to provide a value attribute in fieldValue? I'm kind of confused. I'm probably missing something in the spec.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You are right, I only outlined scenarios where the accessType allows input or initialization..</div><div>In the outputOnly case it is not necessary to provide a fieldValue node at all since there is no value which can be provided. Providing the node would indeed be confusing, to both the user code reader and any X3D browser.</div><div>I believe the spec. is silent on this case in any encoding.</div><div><br></div><div>Best, Andreas</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks for any clarification.</div><div><br></div><div>I have finally enabled schematron on the project, but I'm finding it hard to understand the messages, and modifications that I make, while removing the immediate problems, seem to move the problems elsewhere.</div><div><br></div><div>Explaining why I need a "startTime" fieldValue value is my main lack of understanding, but perhaps I need a whole review of accessType.</div><div><br></div><div>Castle Model Converter reports:</div><div><br></div><div>castle-model-converter: Warning: X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element references unknown field name "enabled"<br>castle-model-converter: Warning: X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element references unknown field name "startTime"<br>castle-model-converter: Warning: X3D: X3D XML: <fieldValue> element references unknown field name "stopTime"</div><div><br></div><div>I will try providing a field value in the ProtoInterface</div><div><br></div><div>If I "cleanup" enabled, startTime and stopTime, I get:</div><div><br></div><div>castle-model-converter: Warning: VRML/X3D: Within prototype "MenuItem", event "inputTrue" references (by "IS" clause) non-existing event "enabled"<br>castle-model-converter: Warning: VRML/X3D: Within prototype "MenuItem", event "triggerTime" references (by "IS" clause) non-existing event "startTime"<br>castle-model-converter: Warning: VRML/X3D: Within prototype "MenuItem", event "triggerTime" references (by "IS" clause) non-existing event "stopTime"</div><div><br></div><div>I guess what I conclude at this point is, startTime and stopTime are bad DEF names, but what about enabled as a field? The dominoes are falling.</div><div><br></div><div>About your two scenarios in the other message, perhaps this is revealing.</div><div><br></div><div>See attached attempt to fix original issue, which resulted in the above.</div><div><br></div><div>John</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 3:59 PM Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div>I think x3dom, reasonably, expects a value for the fieldValue nodes:</div><div><br></div><div>For example:</div><div><br></div><fieldValue name="startTime" /><div><br></div><div>and others.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 5:42 AM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div>Andreas, Joe,</div><div><br></div><div>Reset Button, Reset_Clock added.</div><div><br></div><div>See attached zip for details, or visit link;</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/CleanedYouClocks.x3d" target="_blank">https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/CleanedYouClocks.x3d</a></div><div><br></div><div>For some reason, this link doesn't show the live scene?</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/CleanedYouClocks.x3d" target="_blank">https://andreasplesch.github.io/Library/Viewer/index.html?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/CleanedYouClocks.x3d</a></div><div><br></div><div>Puzzled, haven't researched it yet. Looks good in Sunrize and X_ITE, will try FreeWRL next.</div><div><br></div><div>John</div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Andreas Plesch<br>Waltham, MA 02453</div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Andreas Plesch<br>Waltham, MA 02453</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br clear="all"></div><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span class="gmail_signature_prefix" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir="ltr"><div>Andreas Plesch<br>Waltham, MA 02453</div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; 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