<div><div dir="auto">My recall is that new node types were “registered” and one could not declare new PROTOs with the same name.  This was problematic when wanting to reload a file.  Perhaps some sort of versioning is indicated.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As for Schema, both in JSON and XML, couldn’t we create a barebones schema or X3DUOM from a ProtoDeclare?   What additional field attributes might be required?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Then the task would be modifying the Schema DOM or JavaScript Schema object?  Obviously kind of dangerous, but no more dangerous than web components?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Hmm!</div></div><div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">John</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 11:38 AM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) via x3d-public <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">




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Thanks for the interesting, innovative discussion.  Excerpting the example:</div>
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<span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a href="https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/tutorials/creating-new-node-types/#using-prototyped-nodes" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169LPlnkOWA2443507b-7427-05c8-57fa-df9850ce535b" style="margin:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-align:left" target="_blank">https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/tutorials/creating-new-node-types/#using-prototyped-nodes</a></span></div>
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XML Encoding</div>
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<ProtoInstance name='BouncingBall'>
  <fieldValue name='cycleInterval' value='2'/>
  <fieldValue name='bounceHeight' value='3'/>
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One drawback with the "short" XML syntax is that it will not pass XML DOCTYPE or XML Schema validation, although it still must conform to XML well-formed rules.  Additional tool-specific capabilities can check for such correctness during parsing, of course. 
 Avoiding XML validation relaxes quality assurance (QA)  for the entire scene, not just that prototype instance, and so use of the short form should be considered carefully.</div>
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Of course there is much merit too, not least of which are readability and consistency with other XML-encoded nodes.</div>
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As it turns out, now is a good time to consider such a change to the X3D Standards suite.  We have highly mature documents defining X3D encodings using XML and ClassicVRML syntax.  Conceivably a "short" form for ProtoInstance will carry over satisfactorily
 for JSON and other encodings as well, when we get to them this fall.</div>
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If X_ITE and X3DOM already handle this form, and if Castle Model Viewer (Castle Game Engine) is also supportive, I'm not yet seeing any blockers to adoption.  Further implementation and evaluation of course will be useful</div>
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Reference and specific clause that would need modification:</div>
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<div><span style="color:rgb(13,88,246)"><b><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19776-1v4.0-WD1/Part01/X3D_XML.html" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWA4fa20d17-89bf-3b2b-6883-024038370573" style="color:rgb(13,88,246);margin:0px" target="_blank">X3D
 XML Encoding 4.0</a></b></span><b> </b>revision 19776-1</div>
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<div>4.3.3.2  ProtoInstance node and fieldValue statement syntax</div>
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<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19776-1v4.0-WD1/Part01/concepts.html#ProtoInstanceAndFieldValueStatement" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWA3a5e3b4d-3e78-f35d-b331-a933bee7580e" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19776-1v4.0-WD1/Part01/concepts.html#ProtoInstanceAndFieldValueStatement</a></div>
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Probably no changes needed:</div>
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<div><span style="color:rgb(13,88,246)"><b><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19776-2v4.0-WD1/Part02/X3D_ClassicVRML.html" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWAee3f7b67-25b4-ba9a-1344-2437cac95823" style="color:rgb(13,88,246);margin:0px" target="_blank">X3D
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<div>4.3.3.2 Prototype instances and field value initialization syntax</div>
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<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19776-2v4.0-WD1/Part02/concepts.html#ProtoInstanceAndFieldValueStatement" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWA7d84e734-10c2-4386-6bd9-95461bd96297" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19776-2v4.0-WD1/Part02/concepts.html#ProtoInstanceAndFieldValueStatement</a></div>
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<div><span style="color:rgb(13,88,246)"><b><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD//Part01/Architecture.html" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWAb9ca5ffe-b023-b0b4-2382-7069bbcaf042" style="color:rgb(13,88,246);margin:0px" target="_blank">X3D
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<div>4.4.4 Prototype semantics</div>
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<div><a href="https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD//Part01/concepts.html#PrototypeSemantics" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWA8b85223f-3981-f9ca-0e7b-2ba324624917" target="_blank">https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.1-CD//Part01/concepts.html#PrototypeSemantics</a></div>
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Thanks for careful consideration of this potential capability.  All feedback welcome.</div>
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Have fun with X3D extensibility!  🙂</div>
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<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:9pt">all the best, Don</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:9pt">--</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:9pt">Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br        <a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:9pt">Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA    +1.831.656.2149</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";font-size:9pt">X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics <a href="https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman" target="_blank">https://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman</a></span></p>
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<b>From:</b> x3d-public on behalf of Holger Seelig via x3d-public<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 10, 2025 1:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> X3D<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Holger Seelig<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [x3d-public] Simplifying ProtoInstance nodes </div></div><div dir="ltr">
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<div>This is already possible if you use the „short syntax“ of a proto instance:</div>
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<div><a href="https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/tutorials/creating-new-node-types/#using-prototyped-nodes" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWA7faffb5e-ba8d-82d5-ab0e-6d89dbd65ef1" target="_blank">https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/tutorials/creating-new-node-types/#using-prototyped-nodes</a></div>
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<div>You can use this in X_ITE, but also in X3DOM.</div>
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<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Holger</div>
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--</div>
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Holger Seelig</div>
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Leipzig, Germany</div>
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<a href="mailto:holger.seelig@yahoo.de" target="_blank">holger.seelig@yahoo.de</a></div>
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<a href="https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/" target="_blank">https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/</a></div>
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<a href="https://patreon.com/X_ITE" target="_blank">https://patreon.com/X_ITE</a></div>
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<div>Am 10.05.2025 um 05:55 schrieb John Carlson via x3d-public <<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>>:</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">My thought is to replace “ProtoInstance” tags with “MenuItem” tags, and fieldValue statements with attributes, but I’ve not done that before. My goal is to make the model more accessible to screen readers.</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">Any examples are welcome.</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">See attached link and model.</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">John</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: <b>John Carlson</b> <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWAcd8a00ee-f042-648c-6f64-178e28a78ac1" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2025 at 4:35 PM<br>
Subject: Latest cleaned Jin FACS (needs metadata)<br>
To: Don Brutzman <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWAd9904356-09a4-cdf5-3976-fb8473c5af2e" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>>, Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWA5d445d7c-5882-aea3-c31c-4327a8b07653" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>></div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">Attached.</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">And:</div>
<div style="direction:ltr"><a href="https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/CleanedYouClocks.x3d" id="m_-7711686135142192605m_-2417259004063514169OWA2973ab79-c2b9-cc34-00e8-32a45e78126c" target="_blank">https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/playground/?url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/coderextreme/ci2had/refs/heads/main/resources/CleanedYouClocks.x3d</a></div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">John</div>
<div><CleanedYouClocks.x3d>_______________________________________________<br>
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