[X3D-Ecosystem] What John doesn’t want to do, wants to do, and is guided to do

Tue Jan 21 00:24:51 PST 2025

Well, Wolfram is advertising a Mathematica to Blender “link” which seems to
be copying and pasting Python currently.

https://www.wolfram.com/broadcast/video.php?c=104&StartDocument:=&v=3293&disp=grid&ob=title&o=ASC&p=48

2 days old.  I’ve tapped into the collective unconscious.

It looks like there’s SPRI for combining Prolog, X3D and STEP. (Demo site
looks dead)

John
On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 1:54 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> AI is rapidly being able to use Blender to do 3D work.  It is rapidly
> becoming obvious that I should study a Blender glossary, to enable me to
> use Blender effectively.  Meanwhile, there are only hard paths before me.
>
> That’s my problem, I don’t *want* to use Blender until I can type in an
> equation and get back a surface.  I believe I could design with geometry
> nodes which would suffice.  Then I will learn sufficient materials to
> achieve the look I want.  But then, I would like to export shaders from
> Blender. On top of that, I want to modify equations interactively.
>
> Blender+Mathematica+X3D would be awesome.
>
> I have been doing what people want.  Because I don’t know what I want to
> do.
>
> JSONverse was the culmination of what I wanted to do as far as multiuser
> math education, except for realtime raytracing of surfaces, not triangles.
>
> I have wanted to easily teach people and computers how to play multiplayer
> card games (I love Milles Bornes) but I’ve not tried that with prompts
> yet.  Writing games with prompts (on the level of the Extensible Graphical
> Game Generator by Jon Orwant) has been a goal.  Another goal is recombinant
> games, having a computer discover games through recombination (ala Cameron
> Browne’s Ludemes and class grammars
> http://cambolbro.com).   AFAIK, LLMs can’t discover how to test
> recombinations of games for playability yet.
>
> So goals:  Make multiplayer games easy to learn, play, discover, test and
> build.
>
> In other words, Unreal and Unity are like nightmares of complexity to me.
>   What’s wrong with a simple set of natural language instructions, or if
> you need a thick manual, make a discoverable database of rules, not a bunch
> of heavy coding.  If only we could mix X3D with Prolog.
>
> Perhaps you would like my paper from 1986?
> http://www.coderextreme.net/TurnTaking.html  Orwant took this to the next
> level.
>
> Ideally, we could teach math as explorations  instead of grueling ways it
> was taught in the 70s and 80s.  I need to explore more online tools like
> Brilliant.
>
> As far as rules, I think about 3 dimensional specification languages,
>  realizing most people want natural languages.  I have aphantasia, so my
> internal imagination and visualization is near nil.  How can we teach X3D4
> with 3D?
>
> If I had a way to build diagrams from belief systems, that would be cool.
>
> So primarily,  I’m into making complex things understandable through
> non-natural language means, possibly through demonstration or example.
>
> If you can see a kernel of a goal in this, great.
>
> My spirit also aches for deafblind people who want to communicate on the
> internet through protactile.
>
> John
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 12:32 AM Michalis Kamburelis <
> michalis.kambi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> My point was to suggest to you a better way, that will allow you to
>> achieve what you want *easier*, not *harder*.
>>
>> Your comparisons indicate that you find my suggestions (read the docs,
>> start with simple code snippets, use Blender as a regular user) harder, but
>> I still argue that your approach in this thread ("ask AI for a larger
>> solution and then wonder how/why the AI answer is wrong") is harder than
>> what I suggest.
>>
>> You don't need to run the marathon, read academic documents or do other
>> things perceived as "hard" that you mentioned.
>>
>> To recap / reformulate my 3 suggestions:
>>
>> - Trust Blender Python API docs (more than what AI tells you). You are
>> reading things, you are obviously reading emails and you're reading the AI
>> output, so I hope you will not have trouble reading the Blender Python API
>> docs. You naturally don't need to read it "from beginning to end" like a
>> book, just consult it as necessary. When you wonder about using X, look up
>> what X does, follow links from X to other classes and related methods --
>> Blender Python API docs are heavily inter-linked for this reason.
>>
>> - Try simplest code snippets in Blender. You mentioned yourself you like
>> code snippets, this aligns with my suggestion. Try to do simple things, 1
>> line, few lines, see if it does what you think, then build a bigger program
>> from these blocks. This *will* achieve a better outcome than asking AI to
>> come up with a bigger solution.
>>
>> - Do use Blender as a "regular user" and see in Blender's Python console
>> what your (interactive) actions translate to in Python. It's really easy.
>> You learn Python API this way. And you will then know what your users
>> (which are Blender users in this case) actually do.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Michalis
>>
>> pon., 20 sty 2025 o 22:11 John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> napisał(a):
>>
>>> I’m not really sure what you’re saying Michalis.  I’ve got working
>>> gramps export code, so it would seem the task is to do the opposite using
>>> similar API on  import.  I can stare at the API for ages.  I found
>>> PivotConstraint by looking at the API based on what Joe told me, not
>>> anything an AI told me,  the AI was wrong.  There was no PivotConstraint in
>>> export or import so we were on new ground.
>>>
>>> No, I can’t consume large amounts of documents on the web, I mostly rely
>>> on code snippets.  If I could read academic documents, I could probably
>>> have gotten a PhD or Masters.  Back when I could read better, my professors
>>> invited me to get a higher degree.
>>>
>>> Please be considerate and realize there’s neurodiversity in what people
>>> can accomplish.  Just because I can master the bash shell doesn’t mean I
>>> can use the Blender GUI or play a 3D game to my satisfaction.  I do win
>>> world records regularly on Solitaire4us on Roku. I don’t expect people to
>>> learn vim.  I recommend notepad or vs code.  I did find this thing called
>>> vim3d which is very intriguing.  I did try a “Blender” introductory game,
>>> but it was very short.
>>>
>>> Do I expect you to run a marathon or be a concert violinist?
>>>
>>> What I probably should do is grab the Blender source code so i can use
>>> bash tools to learn it.  Weird why we didn’t figure that out a long time
>>> ago.  That’s how I got as far as I did with CGE.  I did look at Blender RNA
>>> a bit.
>>>
>>> UTSL!
>>>
>>> Ps:
>>>
>>> I recently found “grep -L”, should be really useful!  I’ve been wanting
>>> that for quite a while!
>>>
>>> I have found AI useful for creating a prototype Python database
>>> filtering GUI, fun stuff and no coding needed except to load the database
>>> from X3D JSON.   AI whipped out most of a naylib to Three.JS conversion as
>>> well, and the result looks better than my hand-coded stuff, probably due to
>>> API limitations.
>>>
>>> Just because people are in 3D graphics work doesn’t mean they like to be
>>> immersed in virtual 3D.  My particular bent is mathematical visualization.
>>> I’m not seeing my surfaces in Blender yet, I still want to my surfaces into
>>> Blender, but that may mean extending X3D or Blender.   I hired someone to
>>> get my surfaces into Blender, and they failed, despite having all my
>>> working X3D source code and shaders.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 3:51 AM Michalis Kamburelis <
>>> michalis.kambi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please don't rely on AI like this. Analyzing why AI said this, not
>>>> that, is often a waste of time, in my experience.
>>>>
>>>> AI is guessing. But you should not be guessing. You should:
>>>>
>>>> - Look at documentation, of everything related (Blender Python API in
>>>> general).
>>>>
>>>> - Walk step by step, testing snippets of code, from smaller (1-line) to
>>>> larger, making sure your code does what you want in each iteration.
>>>>
>>>> - Do the operations in Blender, looking in Blender's Python console
>>>> what your interactive operations translate to in Python. This is a great
>>>> way to learn Python API.
>>>>
>>>> To be clear, AI can be a big help with coding. I'm using it too. But
>>>> not like this. You will just waste time trying to analyze why AI is
>>>> guessing wrong ("hallucinating"), trying to find some "nuggets of truth" in
>>>> what AI tells you. Instead, rely on documentation and do own research.
>>>>
>>>> Basically, use AI to help you with *your own* solution. But don't just
>>>> "take a solution from AI" and don't waste time trying to analyze why AI
>>>> said something wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Michalis
>>>>
>>>> pt., 17 sty 2025 o 18:45 John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> napisał(a):
>>>>
>>>>> Looking at the screen capture some more, there’s tons of evidence that
>>>>> the file got loaded, then the X3D got imported, with no cleanup in-between.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just confirming my intuition.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 11:13 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears that import is messed up.  There are 2 armatures with
>>>>>> gramps, when there's only one humanoid in  the file. Weird!  Looking at
>>>>>> gramps in castle, everything looks good except for lighting.  I need to
>>>>>> look at import code a bit more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: image.png]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am unsure I am able to import more than one armature.  There are
>>>>>> very strange errors happening, which I can't currently solve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 9:44 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That’s what I’ve been doing with Joe Kick for nearly a year now.  I
>>>>>>> will try to import gramps and re-export to see what’s up, now that I am
>>>>>>> more confident with export.  There could be an issue with interpolators on
>>>>>>> import, converting to NLA Tracks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, some of Vince and Michalis’ .blend models can use the same
>>>>>>> treatment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hear you Joe, but you’re just confirming that I am doing things
>>>>>>> correctly.  We just need to compare first export with second export.  I
>>>>>>> don’t quite know what a Switch will do on import currently, should be
>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess there might be some interpolators which are not connected to
>>>>>>> TimeSensors which could be getting included in the imported animation, but
>>>>>>> importing an export should clear that up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmmm.  I wish my brain worked better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 3:34 AM Joe D Williams <
>>>>>>> joedwil at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why not show what this produces.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does not look complete but form for Joint node looks correct
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with center and skinCoordIndex and skinCoordWeights.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Jan 16, 2025 10:42 PM
>>>>>>>> To: X3D Ecosystem public discussion <x3d-ecosystem at web3d.org>,
>>>>>>>> Katy Schildmeyer KS APPAREL DESIGN <katy at ksappareldesign.com>, Joe
>>>>>>>> D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>, Michalis Kamburelis <
>>>>>>>> michalis.kambi at gmail.com>, Vincent Marchetti <vmarchetti at kshell.com>,
>>>>>>>> Carol McDonald <cemd2 at comcast.net>, GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Does this AI program generally look correct?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If we can agree that this generally looks ok, I will try to
>>>>>>>> implement this in the Blender importer:
>>>>>>>> https://claude.site/artifacts/7c4c15f2-1bde-4da5-9503-f4f25b09016a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I realize the bone.tail should probably be the child joint center.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do not yet know what i am doing wrong, but my focus will be
>>>>>>>> shifting to animation import after export is done to my satisfaction.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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