[X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D HTML5meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at W3C

[Joe D Williams]

Thanks for stopping in, Dmitri. And welcome back Johannes.
I hope that XML3D and X3DOM folks can work together, along with the 
rest of us in the peanut gallery, and get some words and pictures to 
describe this processor in abstract platform independent detail.

When len said 3D is a standards rich environment, I think he might 
have meant there are a lot of specs all for the same stuff. Of course 
here i am referring to defining data containers of data for the 
shapes, appearances, lights, and other common features. To me, this is 
OK because all that stuff, at least the old stuff, like making meshes 
is all the same data, and that is easily converted between specs.
I know that sounds too simple and probably is, but the point is that 
we can live in that environment and get along because this common 
stuff can usually be alogrithmically transcoded to different syntax 
with standard tools. However, when we get into the event graph the 
authors intentions get harder to convert and leverage. We have seen 
how minor details left to the implementation can cause problems when 
the spec is weak.

So, for the good of all, let's start to see features of the 3D event 
system in proposal/spec form..

Overall, I would like to make sure we have operation in a canvas3D 
covered completely before going too much farther. I don't want to 
press this, but it seems to me there may be at least two levels of 
capability: first, without any addedin engine and second, enough of an 
addedin engine to run the special optimizations and features for more 
performance, 3DCSS, and other features to help author and user.
Hopefully we can have enough of a spec so that we either end up with 
one that satisfys the community or two or three so browser vendors can 
have a choice of between a couple of candidate engines that both 
implement the same live DOM spec. Of course as this gets implemented 
the browser makers may get a better idea of what we think it takes to 
do great realtime 3D and help us out in unexpected ways.
Thanks and Best Regards,
Joe
.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dmitri Rubinstein" <rubinstein at cs.uni-saarland.de>
To: <info at 3dnetproductions.com>
Cc: "'Joe D Williams'" <joedwil at earthlink.net>; "'Chris Marrin'" 
<chris at marrin.com>; "'Philipp Slusallek'" 
<slusallek at cs.uni-saarland.de>; <cbullard at hiwaay.net>; 
<x3d-public at web3d.org>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D 
HTML5meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at W3C


> Hello all. I am the lead developer of the scene graph engine RTSG-2 
> used for native XML3D implementation integrated into WebKit and 
> Firefox. Since I see in the discussion interest in a scene graph 
> engine to speed-up things, I decided to tell about some of the 
> features of our scene graph engine.
>
> RTSG-2 engine implements large parts of X3D SAI services in C++ and 
> additionally some extensions that are not specified in SAI spec. So 
> XML3D specification actually runs on top of X3D-compatible engine. 
> However, to be clear, RTSG-2 core only implements basic X3D/VRML 
> concepts like nodes, data fields (e.g. SFFloat) and MFNode/SFNode 
> fields. Also implementation of all X3D standard fields is available 
> as part of the core. RTSG core does not implement X3D specification, 
> i.e. node type hierarchy, user can create arbitrary specification on 
> top of RTSG-2. In this way XML3D and Xflow are implemented. So I see 
> even a possibility to implement X3DOM on top of it. The only missing 
> concepts are ROUTEs, PROTOs and IMPORT/EXPORT features of X3D. Since 
> XML3D does not need them we didn't implemented them, but it should 
> be possible.
>
> You can freely get a source code for RTSG and for both modified 
> browsers here : 
> http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/fileadmin/cguds/projects/xml3d/browser/src/0.4/
>
> Publications about RTSG:
>
> http://graphics.cs.uni-saarland.de/index.php?id=228
>
> http://graphics.cs.uni-saarland.de/~rubinste/works/diplom.pdf
>
> Greetings
>
> Dmitri Rubinstein
>
> GLG schrieb:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Joe wrote;
>>> I think I agree except in the near term I see an
>>> opportunity to offer
>>> some level of speedup by offering an opertional 'engine'
>>> that can
>>> speed things up by doing some details in fast code.
>>
>>
>> Yes I was thinking that too from the beginning of this
>> thread. That may not align with the stated objectives
>> though, but can possibly help speed up development time. I
>> just saw a rather large list of 'game engines' on Wikipedia
>> not long ago. I am not personally familiar with any
>> particular engine but there could be something fast and
>> light out there that can help. An X3D engine would be nice.
>> How about FreeWRL (http://freewrl.sourceforge.net)? I put
>> this here just in case. I have both XML3D and X3DOM now
>> running off WebGL. I'll go with that until I run into
>> trouble.
>>
>>
>>> tactics. Now it seems the html browsers are all up in the
>>> air about
>>> security of <object> and @sandbox and others so we need
>>> some special
>>> tricks to get the X3D object talking to the DOM
>>
>>
>> You are reading my mind again, which brings me to my first
>> question. I'd like to ask Philipp and Johannes if they know
>> of any security features currently defeated in Mozilla in
>> order for the above to work. Also, same question when
>> running with XFlow.
>>> We saw from Ajax3D that XHR
>>> is a winner and so naturally would play some part in future
>>> X3D networking tactics.
>>
>>
>> Yes funny that you mention it. I plan on hooking up the
>> X3Daemon MU Server as soon as feasible.
>>
>>
>> My last question is on the subject of physics. That has
>> barely been touched. I was wondering if some thought was
>> giving to it. Basic stuff at first like collision and
>> gravity.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Lauren
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>