[x3d-public] [x3dom-developers] [X3D-Public] Prototype

Tue Feb 17 18:24:40 PST 2015

Joe is correct (yet again) in pointing out that prototypes can greatly help in the design of new capabilities.  Thanks for pointing out the relevance of this important set of exemplars!

Background: the H-Anim nodes were first implemented as X3D prototypes (all native X3D/VRML nodes, no scripting needed).  This let authors use and test them, which in turn allowed the working group to continue refining them.

The H-Anim prototypes are available in .x3d .x3dv .x3db and .wrl at

http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/HAnimPrototypes.x3d etc.

pretty print documentation:
http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/HAnimPrototypes.html

These prototypes were fundamentally important for the Humanoid Animation working group succeeding clearly and correctly.  Indeed the prototypes can even be considered an "independent implementation of the five H-Anim nodes themselves.  So they provide a potent example for other working groups, and other authors, about what is possible when writing Prototype nodes.

In fact, the H-Anim prototypes allow automatic conversion of X3D Hanim scenes into VRML97 .wrl files when using the X3dToVrml97.xslt stylesheet - now that is backwards compatibility greater than 100 percent!  The VRML97 specification did not include the design of the H-Anim nodes.

Since the H-Anim prototypes themselves are platform independent, only requiring VRML nodes and prototype functionality, they remain valuable today as a quickstart for any X3D player that wants to quickly add support for H-Anim capabilities without having to do much work at all.

Rephrase: got an X3D player that still lacks H-Anim?  Easy, just use the prototypes.

Have fun with X3D extensibility!   8)

On 2/16/2015 5:34 PM, Joe D Williams wrote:
>> is a real component sufficient  ...
>
>>From my view the most important item of X3D Proto is that a proper
> instance is totally alive in the event system, like a native node,
> part of event cascade in the event graph.
>
>> what kind of content people really need this parameterised deep copy
>> of application data.
>
> Overall, one of the best uses of proto is shown in introdution of
> HAnim.
> This allowed most any VRML/X3D browser to produce a realistic
> resizeable model with deep parameterization and predictable animations
> from really pretty simple user code.
> This also highlighted the limits of even highly scripted protos for
> realtime HAnim deformable skin and vertex displacers and even
> stiffness without deep platform support.
>
> So, that is the main idea, like Tony said, make it easy to instantiate
> custom nodes, so we can interactivly experiment with proven existing
> features.
>
> Thanks and Best,
> Joe
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Behr, Johannes" <johannes.behr at igd.fraunhofer.de>
> To: "Alan Hudson" <alan at shapeways.com>
> Cc: "Andreas Plesch" <andreasplesch at gmail.com>; "x3d-pulbic mlist"
> <x3d-public at web3d.org>; "x3dom-developer mlist"
> <x3dom-developers at lists.sourceforge.net>
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] [x3dom-developers] [X3D-Public] Prototype
>
>
>> I totally agree. I also worked on at least three implementations and
>> it's almost impossible to get the behaviour in a consistent way. The
>> concept is powerful but underspecified and a beast by combining
>> sub-classing and aggregation in a single construct.
>>
>> The questions is, for what kind of content people really need this
>> parameterised deep copy of application data. Or is a real component
>> sufficient.
>>
>> best regards,
>> Johannes
>>
>>> Not too be a hater but I don't think its a good idea to include
>>> PROTO's into X3DOM.  The VRML/X3D proto spec + scripting
>>> interactions is very hard to get cross platform.  I spent many
>>> years dealing with it and its just too much work.  Personally I'd
>>> rather see that development time spent elsewhere improving X3DOM.
>>> It's very helpful to be able to define your own vocabulary but as
>>> it stands PROTO's are not a proven cross platform way to do it.
>>> Maybe the other web native routes will have better luck.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Andreas Plesch
>>> <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Indeed, not having a PROTO node is a substantial lack of
>>> functionality in the x3dom code base and a loss if compared with
>>> standalone x3d browsers. At the risk of misinterpretation, to me it
>>> looks like there was conscious decision by the x3dom developers at
>>> some early point that the certainly very substantial cost of
>>> developing such functionality outweigh the expected benefits. This
>>> may have changed by now, x3dom-developers ?
>>> If not, it follows that there would be a large demand for guidance
>>> in terms of documentation, tutorials and perhaps tools on how to
>>> convert/translate PROTOs into x3dom compatible js code or custom
>>> x3dom nodes. I tried to provide some initial pointers but clearly
>>> input by the x3dom group is what is really required.
>>> -Andreas
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 3:00 PM, <x3d-public-request at web3d.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> Send x3d-public mailing list submissions to
>>>          x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>          http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>          x3d-public-request at web3d.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>          x3d-public-owner at web3d.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of x3d-public digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>     1. Re: [X3D-Public] Prototype (Daniel Vera)
>>>     2.  SSR: server-side rendering (doug sanden)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 10:31:24 +0000
>>> From: Daniel Vera <d.a.vera at warwick.ac.uk>
>>> To: John Richardson <richards at spawar.navy.mil>
>>> Cc: x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] [X3D-Public] Prototype
>>> Message-ID: <54DDD27C.1040900 at warwick.ac.uk>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Apologies for reviving an old thread, but in my opinion not having
>>> capability similar to VRML protos is indeed a loss of
>>> functionality;
>>>
>>> Explanation: I am an engineer (industrial production), not a
>>> developer;
>>> VRML PROTO/EXTERNPROTO has allowed our group to build rich 3D based
>>> engineering application using VRML/javascript code only (i.e.
>>> without
>>> the need to go in the depth of coding with low level libraries
>>> etc.).
>>>
>>> (https://www.youtube.com/user/FDSvideosFDS/videos)
>>>
>>> Looking into Andreas links (Box.js code in particular), it seems
>>> the way
>>> to go is to define additional X3DOM nodes, but that requires
>>> understanding X3DOM code, which not every class of users wants or
>>> has
>>> time to do; In my opinion, X3DOM should match the capability
>>> provided by
>>> X3D in defining complex modelling class/object using X3D/javascript
>>> code/syntax only.
>>>
>>> That said, I am open to additional suggestion, discussion or links
>>> to
>>> more information!
>>>
>>> Regards, Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel
>>> Website,
>>> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot
>>> Media, is your
>>> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly
>>> thought
>>> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more.
>>> Take a
>>> look and join the conversation now.
>>> http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3dom-developers mailing list
>>> x3dom-developers at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/x3dom-developers
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> x3dom-developers mailing list
> x3dom-developers at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/x3dom-developers
>

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman