[x3d-public] Current X3D adoption

Thu Dec 29 11:28:26 PST 2016

Hi Joe,

> X3D HAnim captures industry basic best-practice concepts and techniques of skeletal animation, seamless skin mesh, deformable mesh animation, standardized names and locatons of consistent external and internal landmarks for metrics and interaction, and a standardized way of providing interfaces for transportable animation routines. These are the typical standard capabilities found in all character authoring tools. You will find that all character authoring tools use these same techniques and essentially the same data. These provide a basis for a wide range of applications. The X3D HAnim working group is focused on adding new capabilities to the model.

Yes, I took a quick look at HAnim, and it looks like a good alternative to having animated avatars in FBX or Collada.
What is the position of HAnim regarding these two formats?

Best regards,
Maxim Fedyukov, PhD
CEO, Texel Inc.
+7.910.403.27.01
max at texel.graphics

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe D Williams [mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 8:24 PM
To: Maxim Fedyukov
Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Current X3D adoption

Hi Maxim,

I certainly agree with Alan's comment. I think we find the XML and VRML forms are easy to read and to import.

> Exploring the formats to include into standard recommendations, I see 
> that X3D seems to be one of the best candidates.

X3D HAnim captures industry basic best-practice concepts and techniques of skeletal animation, seamless skin mesh, deformable mesh animation, standardized names and locatons of consistent external and internal landmarks for metrics and interaction, and a standardized way of providing interfaces for transportable animation routines. These are the typical standard capabilities found in all character authoring tools. You will find that all character authoring tools use these same techniques and essentially the same data. These provide a basis for a wide range of applications. The X3D HAnim working group is focused on adding new capabilities to the model.

You are invited to join a weekly or monthly phone meeting to discuss your humanoid applications and help to add or refine features to cover your applications.

> But the main concern here is
> that X3D has not received a wide acceptance of notable software 
> applications

Look under the covers and you will see that names may be slightly different but all character modelling applications from Bitmanagement to Autodesk to Blender to Unity to meshlab and mathlab or whatever use the same "biped" data in the same way as defined in X3D HAnim. The HAnim component is integrated with the rest of X3D and provides the means to capture and maintain the documentation for all character construction, interaction, and animation data in a single extensible file using a standardized human-readable format.

> I'm writing you as the file format subteam lead of IEEE 3D Body 
> Processing working group

I'm replying as an invited expert in the HAnim Working group now inviting you to look deeper into the HAnim ISO standard and some examples to see our coverage. Likewise we would be very interested in your discoveries and opinions.

In addition, web3D.org includes an active X3D working group discussing standards for 3D printing.

Thank You and Best Regards,
Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hudson" <alan at shapeways.com>
To: "Maxim Fedyukov" <max at texel.graphics>
Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Current X3D adoption

>I have a theory on format adoption.  What i've seen over the years is 
>that
> simple formats rule.  One might even say dead formats rule as they 
> don't
> change.  I suspect there is a threshold of effort that turns 
> supporting a
> format from a simple project to one that must be approved.  My going 
> theory
> is that any format you can implement in < 1 week just get's done. 
> Above
> that it must be approved and that starts a larger discussion.
>
> I was never very successful in convincing everyone to keep X3D 
> simple and
> am certainly to blame for some of its bloat.  If you choose to spec 
> X3D for
> your project I'd recommend being very focused in your usage.  Spec a 
> simple
> set of components, require one encoding, then write a document that 
> brings
> all the information into one place to help adopters.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:51 PM, Maxim Fedyukov 
> <max at texel.graphics> wrote:
>
>> Vincent, Doug, thank you for your opinions and comments.
>>
>> > Maxim,
>> > https://standards.ieee.org/develop/indconn/3d/bodyprocessing.html
>> very interesting.
>> > Q. do you have a list of technical requirements for body 
>> > processing?
>> > -Doug
>>
>> The current stage is exactly the formation of a list of technical
>> requirements for 3D body processing. So I'm gathering the 
>> proposition with
>> every option, current pros and contras and the future projections, 
>> as the
>> first standard publishing is planned for Q4 2017.
>>
>> What puzzles me even more is the widespread adoption of VRML, even 
>> in
>> quite new software, which appeared much later than 2005, but still 
>> they
>> have chosen to aim their efforts at adding the support for VRML 
>> and/or
>> VRML2, but not X3D. Do you have an understanding or opinion why 
>> this
>> happens?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Maxim Fedyukov, PhD
>> CEO, Texel Inc.
>> +7.910.403.27.01
>> max at texel.graphics
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Vincent Marchetti <vmarchetti at kshell.com>
>> Date: 12/27/16 16:34 (GMT+03:00)
>> To: Maxim Fedyukov <max at texel.graphics>, X3D Graphics public 
>> mailing list
>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Current X3D adoption
>>
>> Maxim
>>
>> The question as to why a software application, particularly a 
>> commercial
>> or closed product, chooses to support an exchange or export format 
>> is best
>> answered by those who directly manage the development of those
>> applications. I am sure it involves sales and business development
>> objectives as much or more than direct technical merit. In the open 
>> source
>> and third-party spheres X3D is widely supported. Direct X3D support 
>> by open
>> source packages includes the two you mentioned (Blender, Meshlab), 
>> as well
>> as by Open Cascade,VTK, and Cura 3D Printing software. There are 
>> also a
>> variety of commercial and open source translation products that 
>> provide a
>> route from the native formats of popular commercial products into 
>> X3D.
>> There is a comprehensive list of applications at 
>> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/
>> content/examples/X3dResources.html#Conversions and the Web3D 
>> Consortium
>> website at http://www.web3d.org has additional slide sets and
>> presentations detailing workflows to create X3D content from common
>> commercial and open source software.
>>
>> Vince Marchetti
>> KShell Analysis & Web3D Consortium
>>
>> > On Dec 27, 2016, at 6:39 AM, Maxim Fedyukov <max at texel.graphics> 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I'm writing you as the file format subteam lead of IEEE 3D Body
>> Processing
>> > working group
>> > (https://standards.ieee.org/develop/indconn/3d/bodyprocessing.html).
>> > Exploring the formats to include into standard recommendations, I 
>> > see
>> that
>> > X3D seems to be one of the best candidates. But the main concern 
>> > here is
>> > that X3D has not received a wide acceptance of notable software
>> applications
>> > besides Blender and MeshLab. Why is it so?
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Maxim Fedyukov, PhD
>> > CEO, Texel Inc.
>> > +7.910.403.27.01 <+7%20910%20403-27-01>
>> > max at texel.graphics
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > x3d-public mailing list
>> > x3d-public at web3d.org
>> > http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>>
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>>
>

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