[x3d-public] Purpose of X3Dng -- Animation

[Joe D Williams]

> I also had
> tutoring on the specifics from some animators currently working in 
> the
> industry, and the post was reviewed by an industry person prior to
> publication.
>
> So I might be wrong, but I don't really think so.
>

when you say the following, then you are wrong.


> HAnim is *NOT* the way it is done everywhere. It's only the way it 
> is
> done in X3D, and even that does not follow the same principles as 
> the
> industry work.
>

Good Luck in backing up either of those twp sentences..

For a general mesh animation tool that functions like most mesh 
animation authoring tools carry, study the HAnim Displacer node. It 
abstracts the most basic mesh deformation technique, 
CoordinateInterpolators and a scale or weight factor.

> P.S. Right now (X3D V3.3) the biggest problem with H-Anim is that 
> X3D
> does not support rigged deformable skin animation of joints. It is
> included in a separate component.

The first sentence is misleading and incorrect so stop saying that. 
HAnim does Absolutely support rigged deformable skin animation by 
animating the joints. The joints are what gets animated and 
deformation of the skin is the result. The stuff is in a different 
component because it is is a complex structure and computationally 
intensive.
Even in HAnim there is a line between the X3D browsers that can do 
skin and ones that can only do the simple Segment geometry.

If you want to do mesh animations using standard nodes, try 
CoordinateInterpolators. if you wish to deform a mesh using inputs 
that are dependent upon other events than skeletal joint rotation, the 
look at HAnim Displacer.

> Because my point is not H-Anim.

Then quit talking about skeletons and joints and skin as used in HAnim 
like you actually understand HAnim. Whatever it is you are calling 
"rigged deformable skin animation of joints" may be real to you but to 
me is a nonsense phrase. The skin gets animated as a result of 
animation of joints. If this is a different thing, then quit using 
terms found in and reserved for HAnim, like joint and skin. You can 
discover something different and call it actuator(s) and mesh, for 
instance, but not Joint(s) and skin.

All Best intentions, i'm sure.
Joe



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Leonard Daly" <Leonard.Daly at realism.com>
To: "Joe D Williams" <joedwil at earthlink.net>; "X3D Public" 
<x3d-public at web3d.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Purpose of X3Dng -- Animation


> Joe,
>
>> Hi Leonard,
>>
>> http://realism.com/blog/purpose-x3d-animation.
>>
>> There are a few nuggets of some important general stuff mixed in 
>> with
>> a poor and uninformed view of the industry and what X3D HAnim can 
>> do.
>
> There is absolutely nothing in my post about H-Anim. There is no use 
> of
> "H-Anim", "HAnim", or "Human" (all case insensitive).
> That was an explicit choice.
>
> It is likely that I am far more informed of standard industry 
> practices
> for character animation than any other active participant in the
> Consortium. I am Chair (4th year) of LA ACM SIGGRAPH -- supporting
> professional in the industry and location where character animation 
> was
> developed and where its capabilities are pushed to its limits. The
> Chapter regularly discusses and has presentations from the top 
> modelers,
> riggers, and animators in the (entertainment) industry. I also had
> tutoring on the specifics from some animators currently working in 
> the
> industry, and the post was reviewed by an industry person prior to
> publication.
>
> So I might be wrong, but I don't really think so.
>
>
>
>> My opinion is you are not even close to understanding what it is 
>> and
>> about what is really going on with data used to build and animate a
>> humanoid or any other skeletal creation.
>>
>> How about actually using an X3D browser that does HAnim, the best 
>> is
>> BSContact (it used to be that Flux was as good as BSContact) or
>> instant, or any browser using the prototypes we have, and extend
>> yourself to read some of the example code for Segment geometry and
>> skin geometry examples and the actual rigging and animation steps
>> before you write in an authoritative manner. You're understanding 
>> is
>> very incomplete and even wrong about details in the article.
>
> Because my point is not H-Anim. Rigged joint animation is not 
> H-Anim. As
> the article describes rigged joint animation can just as easily be 
> used
> for non-humans, non-animals (e.g., trees), or even non-living (e.g.,
> machines) models.
>
>
>>
>> Try the X3D features, read the spec, and actually try some example 
>> and
>> you will see X3D is not as incomplete as you think.
>
> Rigged skin animation is not available for Immersive. This type of
> animation needs to be available at what amounts to Interchange. X3D 
> is
> incomplete with regards to this.
>
>
>
>>
>> HAnim is not that easy to understand, as you have shown in your
>> article. However, X3D HAnim is logical and completely the way it is
>> done everywhere. So, quit making remarks about what X3D doesn't do 
>> at
>> least until you actually do something with what we have.
>
> HAnim is *NOT* the way it is done everywhere. It's only the way it 
> is
> done in X3D, and even that does not follow the same principles as 
> the
> industry work.
>
>
>>
>> The only thing you showed in this article is that you haven't read 
>> the
>> HAnim spec,
>
> Because it is NOT about H-Anim -- it is about rigged skin animation.
> There is absolutely no assumption about the model being rigged.
>
>
>> you have not used the X3D HAnim to build a character, have not 
>> looked
>> at any X3D HAnim examples, have not even tried to build anything 
>> close
>> to an operating HAnim yourself, have not really understood how 
>> those
>> animation authoring systems work, and finally you haven't even 
>> asked
>> anyone any meaningful questions about the basic technology.
>
> ^^^^^ All irrelevant to my post.
>
>
> Leonard Daly
>
>
> P.S. Right now (X3D V3.3) the biggest problem with H-Anim is that 
> X3D
> does not support rigged deformable skin animation of joints. It is
> included in a separate component. My post is showing that this 
> animation
> capability needs to be included in a standard "profile" (in V3
> terminology) of future X3D. That helps H-Anim by providing an easy 
> and
> existing means to do the animation.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Of course I am open to discussing what is HAnim and how we do it. 
>> Just
>> ask.
>>
>> All Best,
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leonard Daly"
>> <Leonard.Daly at realism.com>
>> To: "X3D Public" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 8:04 AM
>> Subject: [x3d-public] Purpose of X3Dng -- Animation
>>
>>
>>> My next post on the topic is up at
>>> http://realism.com/blog/purpose-x3d-animation. This is an 
>>> explanation of
>>> how animation is done using rigged models and why it is important 
>>> to
>>> include it standard X3D. It does not include node proposals - that 
>>> will
>>> take further research and discussion.
>>>
>
>
> -- 
> *Leonard Daly*
> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
> President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
>