[x3d-public] Fwd: [x3d] X3D WG Minute 5 Oct 2018

Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) brutzman at nps.edu
Fri Oct 12 08:10:32 PDT 2018

[Forwarded with permission from working-group teleconference discussion.]

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[x3d] X3D WG Minute 5 Oct 2018
Date: 	Sun, 7 Oct 2018 12:59:42 -0400
From: 	vmarchetti at kshell.com <vmarchetti at kshell.com>
To: 	X3D WG <x3d at web3d.org>

Teleconference of the X3D Working Group Fri Oct 5  8 am - 9 am PDT, 15:00 GMT

0800-0930 pacific time.  Members and invited guests welcome.

Attending: Vince Marchetti, Michalis Kamburelis, Nicholas Polys,

Regrets: Don Brutzman

     Web3D Teleconference Information

> 0. Review of prior meeting minutes.
> http://web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/2018-September/007235.html

No objections to accepting minutes.

> 1. Discuss Khronos Texture Format (KTF) towards possibly including it as a recommended format in X3D v4.0.
> OpenGL ES Software Development Kit: KTX File Format and Tools
> https://www.khronos.org/opengles/sdk/tools/KTX
> Khronos, KTX File Format Specification, 6th August 2018
> Editors: Mark Callow (ArtSpark/HI Corp), Georg Kolling (Imagination Technologies), and Jacob Ström (Ericsson AB)
> https://www.khronos.org/opengles/sdk/tools/KTX/file_format_spec/
> "/Abstract/. KTX is a format for storing textures for OpenGL® and OpenGL® ES applications.
> It is distinguished by the simplicity of the loader required to instantiate a GL texture object from the file contents."
> https://www.khronos.org/opengles/sdk/tools/KTX/file_format_spec/
> Castle-engine viewer to handle KTX:
> https://castle-engine.io/glviewimage.php
> Of note is that X3D authors can test out KTF today in url arrays by putting those first, then falling back to an alternate format if needed.
MK has submitted https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/KTX as a summary of issues.

KTX supports Mipmaps, which is useful for efficiently rendering textures in a 3D context, Mipmaps is a level of detail feature. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mipmap)
The current standard states image texture "shall support" JPEG, PNG. We proposal does not propose making KTX a required format, but a recommeded format for image textures, cubemaps, and 3D Formats.
Proposal would be to add KTX as a recommended format.

There is an existing implementation of KTX texture support in an X3D browser -- Castle Engine
KTX can be supported in ThreeJS , not open source, as a proprietary implementation by MK. This should be regarded as proof-of-concept, an open source implementation of KTX in a WebGL context would be a valuable project.
          KTX supports 3D Textures, so is promising for volumetric imaging, medical imaging

KTX can be used "losslessly", so would be appropriate for medical imaging.
Also offer "light" lossy compression.
          KTX is not directly connected with glTF, although they are both specifications administred by Khronos group.

glTF says that JPEG and PNG are required and other formats not allowed. [Get reference, check with Khronos]
See glTF discussion https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/issues/835

KTX Patent and Royalty Status?
Are there "submarine" patents which would cause issues with implementation?
Note that there are some "GPU Compression" schemes which are protected by patents, and which are also

Important: We want to make this change in 3 nodes. In the same spirit as ImageTexture, KTX would be offered as a recommendation
for CubeMaps and 3D Textures.

Promote/request/urge implementation of KTX support in open source browser X3DOM, X_ITE, FreeWrl. This should be relatively easy for browsers that support DDS.
VM will add KTX support as a spec comment -- This has been done, next step is to open a Mantis issue.
KTX for 3D Textures

> 2. X3D Specification Timeline:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Hy6b0kK-th0OEcyxy1taoXqv4liP7YHXjik3Jzhu9rI
>         Proposed reformattings, with Spec Development Timeline running vertically down rows of spreadsheet
> [If WG will continue working with these Google Drive documents, they need to be copied into a Web3D Google Drive Folder]
> Track A https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PgBMqQX4_YVV5nI7Cf2p14Q2RbPsHnuD3sqWNRbQduY/edit?usp=sharing
> Track B, simultaneous submission of NWIP and CD : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DnQyy5aZfEY9iEz2BckO2AMwx2L_XNpl1iOunG-EaE4/edit?usp=sharing

The Track A and Track B spreadsheets are an attempt to reformat the existing work of https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Hy6b0kK-th0OEcyxy1taoXqv4liP7YHXjik3Jzhu9rI so
          that time and sequence of events go from top to bottom rather than left to right.

Within each spreadsheet, yellow highlighting is used to identify the events of Web3D Board approval of a document. What is not explicitly depicted in the spreadsheet is that if the Board does not approve the documents, activity would backtrack to the preceding document preparation steps to address the Board's concerns.

Gray highlight identifies the events of document submissions to ISO.

          The rows which are not highlighted identify processes; the first word of the row text identify what body's (Web3D Consortium or ISO) procedures govern how that process is carried out.

For clarity, there are two Timelines, Track A and Track B. Track B is the recommened process for projects that have not yet submitted an NWIP document to ISO. Many of our existing projects are already proceeding under Track B.

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all the best, Don
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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