[x3d-public] Euler rotation

[GPU Group]

And this is a tough crowd AJ - they rake you over the coals here. No
instant applause allowed. I've submitted a few ideas through the specs
comments and very little saw its way into specs v4. Personally I love the
euler idea - in large part because I think it would welcome more users from
different backgrounds and skill levels, trying to get started in x3d.
I suspect to get things adopted, its better to become a full member, and
sit on various 'boards' where we can nurse our pet ideas through to final
specs. I would do that process but I always seem to have my year booked.
Maybe some day.
-Doug Sanden

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 4:39 AM Albert Jan Wonnink <awonnink at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Joseph,
>
> Thank you for your reply. Just to be sure: the context I meant to discuss
> is about having a convenient attribute in the declarative syntax, say
> 'euler', to set the initial orientation of the transform, so anyone can use
> either 'rotation' or 'euler'.
>
> <transform euler="20 40 10" >
>
> So I interpreted Vince's $yaw, $pitch and $roll to be just placeholders,
> for manual substitution.
>
> You are right using this with either radians or degrees would be equally
> simple.
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert Jan
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 6, 2019 7:20 PM
> *To: *Albert Jan Wonnink <awonnink at hotmail.com>; vmarchetti at kshell.com;
> X3D-Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] Euler rotation
>
>
>
> Hi Albert and All,
>
> When you use euler (or Tait-Bryan) angles for a while you will find that
> you get problems.
>
> Actually there is plenty of writing about the details maybe even in the
> x3d or hanim archives and widely on the web.
>
>
>
> In addition, when you create or edit the things much then you will find it
> is actually a lot easier to use quats or axis-angle radians. In general,
> for degrees, maybe your editing system may offer as a learning tool if
> radian is really an elementary block to learning, but really, never in the
> user code due to misleading simplicity and what ‘cha finally gonna tell ‘em
> when the gimbals lock?
>
>
>
>    - <Transform DEF="yaw-rotation" rotation="0 0 1 $yaw">
>    - <Transform DEF="pitch-rotation" rotation="0 1 0 $pitch">
>    - <Transform DEF="roll-rotation" rotation="1 0 0 $roll">
>
>
>
> Besides the fact that a variable is not allowed there
>
> (maybe use a prototype if you need a variable?)
>
> I don't think your naming of yaw and pitch and roll is reasonable for x3d.
>
>
>
> For default transform rotation 0 0 1 0, sit on it and face +z and find +y
> is up and +x is left.
>
> then fly the thing using pitch and yaw and roll.
>
> The x3d axis-angle parameters are most likely pitch yaw roll then the
> scale,
>
> and I think the same order for quaternions, except where the 'scale' is
> placed and the special limits for values.
>
>
>
> Why not try the following:
>
>
>
> DEF Pitch OrientationInterpolator {
>
> key [ 0, 0.25 0.5, 0.75 1 ]
>
> keyValue [ 0 0 1 0, 1 0 0 1.5, 0 0 1 0, -1 0 0 1.5, 0 0 1 0 ] }
>
>
>
> DEF Yaw OrientationInterpolator { key [ 0, 0.25 0.5, 0.75 1 ]
>
> keyValue [ 0 0 1 0, 0 1 0 1.5, 0 0 1 0, 0 -1 0 1.5, 0 0 1 0 ] }
>
>
>
> DEF Roll OrientationInterpolator {
>
> key [ 0, 0.25 0.5, 0.75 1 ]
>
> keyValue [ 0 0 1 0, 0 0 1 1.5, 0 0 1 0, 0 0 1 1.5, 0 0 1 0 ] }
>
>
>
> Thanks and Best,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> *From: *Albert Jan Wonnink <awonnink at hotmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 6, 2019 2:25 PM
> *To: *vmarchetti at kshell.com; X3D-Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] Euler rotation
>
>
>
> Thanks Vince, for your reply.
>
>
>
> As long as the angles and X3D code is  generated by code one can of course
> easily calculate the individual parameters for a quaternion. But during the
> testing of our experimental Unity based browser, and preparing scenes for
> that, I found it very easy to extend the transform specification with a
> degree-based Euler attribute (Tait-Bryan would also have worked).
>
>
>
> The current system still makes it relatively difficult to manually apply
> an angle of the most used fractions of PI, doesn't it?
>
>
>
> I guess this issue must have been discussed in one of the early days of
> the X3D specification. But it seems to me a lost chance to make it more
> convenient.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
>
>
> Albert Jan Wonnink
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image002.png at 01D4A5E3.FD08F950]
>
> *Van:* vmarchetti at kshell.com <vmarchetti at kshell.com>
> *Verzonden:* zondag 6 januari 2019 22:49
> *Aan:* Albert Jan Wonnink; X3D-Public
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [x3d-public] Euler rotation
>
>
>
> There is no single node Euler angle alternative representation of a
> rotation transform defined in the current (v 3.3) X3D standard.
>
>
>
> You can get an easier to edit representation of Euler angle rotation
> (specifically the Tait-Bryan angles,
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_angles#Tait%E2%80%93Bryan_angles
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_angles#Tait–Bryan_angles>, commonly
> used for vehicle oriented
>
> with respect to the horizon, by nesting 3 Transforms:
>
>
>
> <Transform DEF="yaw-rotation" rotation="0 0 1 $yaw">
>
> <Transform DEF="pitch-rotation" rotation="0 1 0 $pitch">
>
> <Transform DEF="roll-rotation" rotation="1 0 0 $roll">
>
> <!-- put vehicle model here -->
>
> <Shape>...</Shape>
>
> </Transform>
>
> </Transform>
>
> </Transform>
>
>
>
> where for $yaw, $pitch, $roll you need to substitute the numerical value
> of the rotation angle in radians.
>
>
>
>
>
> Vince Marchetti
>
>
>
> On Jan 6, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Albert Jan Wonnink <awonnink at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Is there, or should there be, an Euler alternative for the transform
> 'rotation' property? This makes direct x3d code editing much easier.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> Albert Jan Wonnink
>
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