[x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Mon Jun 8 20:38:06 PDT 2020
I appreciate your enthusiasm for displaced. How do I displace r in
spherical coordinates?
Thanks!
John
On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:52 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
wrote:
> See, you give it a displacement vector from initial or, if other point
> animations in the same frame then the location set by prior animation
> process such as other Displacers or joint rotation driven mesh deformation,
> according to the weight input. At least that’s the way I heard it. More in
> the standard.
>
>
>
> You might think this might be a simple tool like first you get a shape as
> reference then another shape as target, then just give those start and stop
> frames to the interpolator and let it sort out the points between as you
> command it.
>
>
>
> Just like that name says, you name some vertices in the target geometery
> and give it a final displacement from wherever it was to how far you tell
> it to be from where it got started. The only problem is, the node is simple
> and so it is only linear overall, but you can drive 0 to 1 however you wish.
>
> Also, you can chain a few to get some special more delicate
> displacements.
>
> Example:
>
> Your point 527 of the target geometry (in the order of appearance in the
> user code) starts at 0 1.77 0 and over some cycle you want to move it to 0
> 1.92 0 then the displacer value for max movement is 0 0.15 0.
>
> initial 0 1.77 0
>
> displacer 0 0.15 0
>
> result 0 1.92 0
>
> Simple but very effective if you have a plan for what you wish to do given
> some input.
>
>
>
> <Displacer DEF='tipTest'
>
> coordIndex='527' displacements='0 0.15 0' weight='0'/>
>
> weight driven by
>
> <ScalarInterpolator DEF='tipTest'
>
> key='0 0.5 1' keyValue='0 0.3 1'/>
>
>
>
> If you have a deformable mesh, then all is good. But wait, you only get
> that by name in x3d hanim.
>
> Shouldn’t there be some in basic x3d so you don’t have to put your code n
> the Humanoid?
>
>
>
> So, maybe that is why our x3d hanim Displacer is so special and not called
> a ‘morpher’ doing one set of coordinates to another, but instead, where,
> relative to what it got, what do at you want to happen to that vertex when
> this Displacer gives it the drive.
>
>
>
> Isn’t that also why all the ‘simple’ morphers like between frames and
> others are hidden in plain sight in the different styles of x3d
> interpolators? Each of their stories should be told, also.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Sent: *Monday, June 8, 2020 1:50 PM
> *To: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D
>
>
>
> - Limited to [0,1]? I’ll check the docs.
>
>
>
> Yes, that is the scale input. From the initial position, theDisplacer
> moves the specified vertex according to the 100 percent displacement set in
> the values.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, June 7, 2020 1:14 PM
> *To: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Cc: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D
>
>
>
> Limited to [0,1]? I’ll check the docs.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 3:10 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Not trying to change the number of points yet. Thanks for the info.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 7:56 AM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> · What people don’t understand is I’m moving every vertex in the
> mesh
>
>
>
> Hey John, vrml and x3d hid that one in the hanim Displacer node.
>
> If you can’t do a morph you need with that, please tell. Just don’t try to
> change the number of points.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, June 7, 2020 12:55 AM
> *To: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *[x3d-public] Visualizing Math in X3D
>
>
>
> Don, I am just trying to make the standard better for visualizing
> mathematical stuff, I pretty much majored in mathematical visualization
> in college. There’s a lot of stuff in the standard for visualizing
> physics, both rigid body and particle systems. Instead of applying math
> to physics, I am trying to apply physics to math.
>
>
>
> I realize that visualizing math does not really have a vocal champion in
> the X3D community, perhaps Andy Yeh is still around.
>
>
>
> I imagine because Mathematica made great strides in the math community.
>
>
>
> Mathematica still requires a Pro edition running on the cloud to even
> attempt my surfaces. In X3D, they pop right up, even multiple
> “transparent” animated objects. Yay X3D!
>
>
>
> PlayCanvas has a *very* slow start up compared to X3D.
>
>
>
> I would like to continue using X3D over PlayCanvas and others. The key
> remains don’t use the network for mesh, positions, or normals, generate
> them on the web client. My knowledge of geometry shaders indicates I
> still need to compute a grid on a sphere, and the geometry shader can
> enhance that.
>
>
>
> That is why I am seeking to have the browser generate the mesh for at
> least one topology, let’s call it a sphere, but it’s the topology of the
> equation that matters. I can already position and compute normals of the
> surfaces. I could probably compute a mesh as sphere topology in an
> initialize method if that’s still allowed. I am not sure about X_ITE. I
> do not want to generate coordinates in X3D nodes. Shaders are fine for
> that. I am not sure I can confidently generate a mesh without defects.
>
>
>
> Low bandwidth (think 4G LTE) is preferred.
>
>
>
> But you can see my Frustration compared to Mathematica users who just type
> in a small set of equations. Not my lucky day.
>
>
>
> I do not want geometry or perfect math in X3D. I want a topological
> 0-hole enclosed surface, subdivided to adequate resolution.
>
>
>
> I will look further into primitive quality.
>
>
>
> I will see if my graphics card supports raytracing.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:37 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here’s the best looking version of what I like to do:
>
>
>
> https://playcanv.as/p/wQgQBgkE/
>
>
>
> Ideally, I could send a math equation in MathML by putting MathML into the
> geometry node, and PBR or material like glass or diamond
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:22 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Previous subject: morphing comparison in X3D and glTF:
>
>
>
>
>
> http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-December/008037.html
>
>
>
> I would say morphing is doable in X3DOM, but perhaps not other browsers.
> The most conformant approach would probably be an IFS where the position
> and normal are computed in a shader and the mesh is computed in user code,
> or provided statically.
>
>
>
> My question becomes, Why can’t we provide at least provide for common
> topologies? 1 surface and 0 edges (sphere), 2 surface (cone), 3 surface
> (cylinder), 1 surface and one hole(torus), and consider a higher number of
> holes and surfaces. I think we have a isocahedron at least...but very
> slow to open.
>
>
>
> It seems like I should be using blender to create X3D.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:33 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What people don’t understand is I’m moving every vertex in the mesh with
> respect to the mesh. Kind of like particle physics or morphing would be a
> better description. I have example videos.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:01 PM J. Scheurich <mufti11 at web.de> wrote:
>
>
> > 1. User provides a mesh. I have done this before. It is too slow for
> > a 100x100 IFS (20000 polygons I think).
> It depend on your graphics card and driver.
> For the rasberry PI and some other systems i meshured the performace in
> 3000 Polygon-Steps
> (1 NURBS-Object with uv/Tessellation 0)
>
> https://wdune.ourproject.org/docs/usage_docs/white_dune_rasberry_pi.odp
>
> (in german but page 5 is a readable table).
> A raspberry PI (shared Memory graphics card) can do 30000 polygons, a
> Intel HD 3000 shared
> memory graphics card (this is a common card on older "office"-laptops)
> can do 33000 polygons.
> There are very much faster graphic cards on "game laptops"....
> The fastest graphics card on this list is a very slow (processor)
> Mac-book....
>
> The only systems that are not able to do 20000 polygons are a 8 year old
> netbook and a
> ARM chromebook without a 3D driver.
>
> so long
> MUFTI
>
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