[x3d-public] X3D minutes 12 June 2020: X3D4 gltf/physically based rendering (PBR) update, X3D C++ language binding, Web3D 2020 CFP 5 July
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Mon Jun 15 08:45:36 PDT 2020
glTF Inlining > alternatives >
Q. could/should we have syntax for picking parts out of a .gltf scene into
our main x3d scene?
<Box url="something.gltf#semething"/>
or
<ProtoInstace url="something.gltf#semething" />
Benefit: more scripting and routing options.
-Doug Sanden
On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:19 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
> Attendees: Michalis Kamburelis, Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Nicholas
> Polys, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.
>
> Regrets: Christophe Mouton, previously participating with Vince in global
> meeting of Web3D 2020 Conference program committee.
>
> Thanks to Michalis for today's "deep dive" and also thanks to Michalis and
> Vince for help with minutes.
>
> Last week's minutes:
>
> [0] X3D minutes 5 June 2020: Web3D 2020 papers deadline, mantis issues,
> refining some field names
>
> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-June/012834.html
>
> No member-only information is included in these minutes.
>
> ---
>
> 1. *Participation Information*
>
> [1] Web3D Teleconference Information
> https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>
> Please use the following link for all Web3D Consortium Meetings.
>
> Join URL:
> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09
>
> Meeting ID: 81634670698 Meeting Password: 483805
>
> One tap mobile
> US (New York) +1 929 205 6099,,(nine-digit number from Join URL
> above)#
> US (San Jose) +1 669 900 6833,,(nine-digit number from Join URL
> above)#
>
> ---
>
> 2. Physically Based Rendering (PBR) Progress.
>
> Michalis briefed us all on progress in the X3D4 PR8
>
> [2] X3D4 PR8: [WIP] PBR and other lighting and material upgrades
> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/8
>
> Castle Game Engine (CGE) implements now punctual lights
>
> [3] Reading punctual lights from glTF
>
> https://castle-engine.io/wp/2020/06/11/reading-punctual-lights-from-gltf
>
> [4] KHR_lights_punctual - Khronos extensions for punctual lights in glTF
> "This extension defines a set of lights for use with glTF 2.0. Lights
> define light sources within a scene."
>
> https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Khronos/KHR_lights_punctual
>
> They correspond nicely to X3D PointLight/SpotLight/DirectionalLight.
>
> Blender can export them (with out-of-the-box glTF exporter).
>
> Michalis promises to write (some time after PBR PR, so in July/August) a
> document "Suggested/best practices to convert glTF to X3D" to document
> corresponding glTF and X3D features. Thanks!!
>
> glTF has also image-based lighting:
>
> [5] glTF/extensions/2.0/Vendor/EXT_lights_image_based/ - Khronos
> extensions for image-based lights in glTF
>
> https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Vendor/EXT_lights_image_based
>
> ---
>
> 3. Michalis plan to finish PBR PR in June:
>
> 3.1. *Do* deal with texture channels issue (see
> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/X3D-version-4:-New-features-of-materials,-lights-and-textures#todos
> )
>
> 3.2. *Do not* deal with gammma correction.
>
> * It can be left, after my PR PBR, as implementation-specific choice
> controlled by some user setting.
>
> * Reason: It is useful, but not critical, to add X3D prose about it (to
> control gamma (request it being on/off, not "user's choice"), and to
> specify that particular texture is already in gamma-corrected space or
> not). So this prose can be added in X3D 4.1.
>
> [6]
> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Gamma-correction-in-X3D-and-glTF
> [7]
> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/X3D-version-4:-New-features-of-materials,-lights-and-textures#todos
>
> 3.3. *Do not* deal with image-based lighting. `EnvironmentLight`, that I
> planned for X3D 4.0, and hereby getting postponed. Not for June, maybe not
> for X3D 4.0.
>
> Reason: it can be added nicely in X3D 4.1.
>
> And it will be interesting to see adoption of corresponding
> https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Vendor/EXT_lights_image_based
> (it is not yet supported by glTF sample viewer or by Blender exporter;
> although they are I think at least 2 open-source implementations handling
> it).
>
> ----
>
> 4. Matching data types from X3D to glTF?
>
> Michalis has shown that it is possible to ROUTE values into a node within
> a glTF model.
>
> (suggest forwarding separate private email thread to public list with
> permissions, if appropriate)
>
> Nicholas asked about matching data types, i.e. correspondences between X3D
> and glTF data types... Michalis reports that current value type
> correspondences basically seem sufficient and are working well. We do need
> to pay attention to names and naming conventions, more to follow on that
> when we start scrutinizing examples.
>
> If glTF naming isn't yet stable then perhaps not in X3D4.0 but topic
> definitely holds interest. We continue looking at precise mechanisms for
> loading glTF in X3D, presumably via Inline node. Indeed Michalis example
> utilized Inline and IMPORT statements.
>
> The X3D IMPORT / EXPORT mechanism is already capable of doing this:
> - glTF loader in Castle Game Engine simply internally creates X3D nodes
> (like TimeSensor) with names derived from glTF nodes.
> - The animation TimeSensor nodes are also EXPORTed from the glTF file,
> using X3D EXPORT mechanism.
> - So you can Inline the glTF file in X3D, and access the animations from
> X3D and play them.
>
> Michalis made a demo of this:
>
> - X3D code is in
>
> [8]
> https://github.com/castle-engine/demo-models/blob/master/blender/skinned_animation/skinned_anim_run_animations_from_x3d.x3dv
>
> - It accesses the glTF file in the same directory,
>
> [9]
> https://github.com/castle-engine/demo-models/blob/master/blender/skinned_animation/skinned_anim.glb
>
> Discussion of Inline node being sufficient for loading glTF (i.e. not
> needing another new node): Michalis confirmed that was indeed the case for
> his implementation.
>
> ----
>
> 5. *C++ Language binding to X3D.*
>
> Prof Myeong Won Lee has submitted to X3D Working Group by email the second
> working-draft version Committee Draft (CD) for ISO-IEC 19777-4; C++
> Language binding to X3D. She is looking for feedback and comments.
>
> [10] [x3d] ISO/IEC 19777-4 CD X3D language bindings - Part 4: C++ by
> Myeong Won Lee
>
> https://web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/2020-June/007914.html
>
> This is the second submission of a draft document, following initial
> sharing, positive reinforcement and helpful feedback last year.
>
> This important step has been entered into timeline document at
>
> [11] Web3D ISO Specification Development Timeline
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GdVcjQIid0Hohc_ajmepVOESy2sLtHSVvbvsFni89w8/edit#gid=1641828106
>
> We intend to perform member-only X3D Working Group initial review before
> considering any further steps.
>
> As usual, once ready, we expect to share this document more widely with
> experts and experts and community to further improve correctness and
> encourage adoption. We are driving towards an ISO submission.
>
> Dick, are we ready to place this document into Github for further member
> access?
>
> [12] https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D
> "Maintenance and development of all X3D specifications, i.e. ISO/IEC
> 19775, 19776 and 19777 series."
> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D
>
> After sufficient work and consensus in X3D Working Group on readiness, it
> will advance further to Web3D Board and Web3D Members for review and
> approval.
>
> [13] Web3D Consortium Standards Strategy
> https://www.web3d.org/strategy
>
> As ever, Web3D Consortium Membership has value!
>
> [14] Join the Web3D Consortium
> https://www.web3d.org/join
>
> ----
>
> 6. *Mantis Issue Updates*
>
> We briefly reviewed the following Mantis issues.
>
> [15] Mantis 1252, PointProperties node specification;
> PointSet/LineSet/IndexedLineSet can contain Normal
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1252
>
> Noted that we have gotten to clarity in Mantis and applied draft
> specification changes. Will soon add Normal as an allowed field for
> PointSet/LineSet/IndexedLineSet nodes in X3D4 XML schema/DTD, X3DUOM and
> various X3D autogenerated. This design improvements provides more
> consistent handling of collected data and potential rendering for point
> clouds, especially mesh production by 3D scanners.
>
> Continuing followup from last week's X3D Working Group meeting progress on
> Viewpoint/NavigationInfo and viewAll:
>
> [16] Mantis 1194: 23.4.4 NavigationInfo VIEWALL (or X3DViewpointNode
> viewAll) should be a required navigation behaviour
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1194
>
> [17] Mantis 1264: NavigationInfo type TURNTABLE HELICOPTER GAME FREEFLY
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1194
>
> [18] Mantis 1264: add field to Viewpoint for dedicated NavigationInfo
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1305]
>
> Given difficult access by some key implementers, have attached PDFs of
> relevant Mantis issues to these minutes.
>
> Suggest that absent any objections, we experiment further on feasibility
> by adding them to X3Dv4 schema and X3DUOM. Specifically:
>
> - add viewAll field to X3DViewpointNode, Viewpoint, OrthoViewpoint
> - add navigationInfo field to X3DViewpointNode, Viewpoint, OrthoViewpoint
> - add Mantis prose for new NavigationInfo types
> - apply Mantis prose to X3D4 draft specification on github
>
> As mentioned in last week's minutes, all comments welcome. Implementation
> in X3D XML Schema/DTD, X3DUOM, tooltips and libraries soon to follow in
> support of experimental testing.
>
> ---
>
> 7. Noted invited-expert status and sent (another) request to grant Mantis
> access for John Carlson, Michalis Kamburelis, Doug Sanden, Joe Williams in
> recognition of their deep expertise, continuing contributions and ongoing
> experience implementing both X3D and HAnim.
>
> ---
>
> 8. We are less than a month away to CFP deadline for papers for Web3D
> 2020. Tutorial and workshop proposals follow shortly thereafter.
>
> This is our 25th anniversary. We expect to achieve significant attention
> as a result.
>
> [19] Web3D 2020 Conference, Virtual Event
> https://www.web3d.org/event/web3d-2020-conference-virtual-event
>
> [20] Web3D 2020, 25th International Conference on 3D Web Technology -
> Submissions
> https://2020.web3dconference.org/submissions
>
> ---
>
> As ever, all comments questions and improvements are welcome. Onward we
> go, smartly together.
>
> Have fun with X3D4! Start writing for Web3D 2020! 8)
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
> _______________________________________________
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>
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