[x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10 connections at a time)
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Wed Feb 3 19:15:31 PST 2021
I’m actually more concerned with authorization at this point.
I am thinking about something like EMonkeyEngine.
Yes, I understand that people have attempted 3D worlds plus authentication
in the past.
Perhaps we should dig into Open Croquet/Open Cobalt as well. Squeak is
not my strong suit.
I don’t want to work on this, I am merely throwing it out there. Session
key is fine by me.
John
On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 4:57 PM Christoph Valentin <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> I played around with PAM on my CentOS server, because I was eager to do
> some very unusual things with system files authentication and LDAP
> authentication. Oh, what a crap.
>
> Let's keep things easy. For voice chat we need a SIP server anyway (I'd
> suggest kamailio.org), so we let the SIP Server do the authentication and
> then just distribute a symmetric key / token to access the communication
> channel. Keep it simple. I'll answer with a second, final, e-mail. Please
> wait your answer :-)
>
> All the best
> Christoph
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 02. Februar 2021 um 07:52 Uhr
> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> An: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> Cc: "Doug Sanden" <gpugroup at gmail.com>, "X3D Graphics public mailing
> list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10
> connections at a time)
>
> It may be useful to find “plugin authentication modules (PAM)” for ALP, as
> developed for SYSVR4 and maybe Linux. I think Java or Jakarta EE may have
> something too.
>
> There may be something more recent.
>
> John
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 9:00 PM Christoph Valentin <
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]> wrote:Just
> to be complete: the "Tiny VPN" is now documented at the WWW:
>
>
> https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental/tiny-vpn[https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental/tiny-vpn]
>
> Comments welcome, as always,
>
> KR
>
>
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. Januar 2021 um 00:08 Uhr
> Von: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>
> An: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org]>
> Betreff: [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10
> connections at a time)
>
> Hi John,
>
> You can access the VPN's calendar directly at the experimental owncloud
> web interface at my vServer:
>
> (owncloud is a framework mainly for file sharing, but also has calendar
> and contacts via WebDav)
>
> URL
> https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud[http://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud][https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud%5Bhttp://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud%5D]
> <https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud%5Bhttp://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud%5D%5Bhttps://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud%5Bhttp://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud%5D%5D>
>
> user name vpncal
> password X3D4
>
> All the best
> Christoph
>
>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. Januar 2021 um 15:35 Uhr
> Von: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>
> An: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org]>
> Betreff: [x3d-public] Fw: Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10
> connections at a time)
>
> John,
>
> Please expect some maintenance work (short interruptions) next week
> Saturday (30th January).
>
> I have now defined an online calendar for the VPN, to avoid flooding the
> mailing list.
>
> The calendar can be easily integrated with the calendar on your Android
> phone (see the green entry below!!!).
>
> Probably it is possible to integrate it with any smartphone (it uses the
> WebDav standard), but I haven't tried.
>
> Installation instructions:
> 1) Install DAVx5 on your Android smartphone (available at F-Droid)
> 2) Create new DAVx5 account "vpncal at lc-soc-lc.at[mailto:
> vpncal at lc-soc-lc.at]"
> - URL:
> https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/[https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/][https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/%5Bhttps://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/%5D]
> <https://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/%5Bhttps://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/%5D%5Bhttps://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/%5Bhttps://lc-soc-lc.at/owncloud/remote.php/dav/calendars/vpncal/personal/%5D%5D>
> - user: vpncal
> - pw: X3D4
> 3) Enable and trigger the synchronization of WebCal
> 4) Go to "Calendar" App: make sure the "personal" calendar is activated
> for display
>
> The installation instructions will be available at
> https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental[https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental][https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental%5Bhttps://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental%5D]
> <https://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental%5Bhttps://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental%5D%5Bhttps://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental%5Bhttps://lc-soc-lc.at/experimental%5D%5D>
> soon.
>
>
> If you have set the synchronization correctly, then it should be possible
> for you to make calendar entries, too (e.g. test sessions, where you need
> more than 2 connections, or some specific multicast address).
>
> KR
> Christoph
>
>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um 14:11 Uhr
> Von: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>
> An: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org]>
> Betreff: [x3d-public] Tiny VPN for Use by Web3D Community (max. 10
> connections at a time)
>
> Hi John, Gina Lauren, Jordi, and all interested in multiuser
>
> Being very curious to get to know, whether the "server-less mode" could
> really work, I was thinking about what could I contribute?
>
> I have got this tiny vServer at hoststar.at[http://hoststar.at] (hosted
> at some cloud in Germany), where I could implement a VPN for "server-less
> experiments".
>
> Voilá
>
> So, if you have a Windows 10 client, then what you can do:
>
> 1) Install OpenVPN Connect software (community edition) -
> https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/[https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/][https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/%5Bhttps://openvpn.net/community-downloads/%5D]
> <https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/%5Bhttps://openvpn.net/community-downloads/%5D%5Bhttps://openvpn.net/community-downloads/%5Bhttps://openvpn.net/community-downloads/%5D%5D>
>
> 2) Unzip the config.zip from attachment into C:\Program
> Files\OpenVPN\config
>
> 3) Start OpenVPN Client
>
> 4) Connect
>
> 5) Now your client is a multihomed host with an additional network
> interface at 172.27.224.0/19[http://172.27.224.0/19]
> <http://172.27.224.0/19%5Bhttp://172.27.224.0/19%5D>
>
> 6) The network 172.27.224.0/19[http://172.27.224.0/19]
> <http://172.27.224.0/19%5Bhttp://172.27.224.0/19%5D> is an island. Only
> people, who receive this e-mail, can connect.
>
> What is missing:
>
> a) a proof that multicast addresses work on the VPN
> b) an online calendar to coordinate the multicast sessions at the VPN-> I
> will provide this on request.
>
> KR,
> Christoph
>
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 um 01:34 Uhr
> Von: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>
> An: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org]>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
> Hi John,
>
> Currently having two issues:
>
> 1) can test the VPN only with two Windows clients -> you have to create
> your own experience with the Linux client
> 2) still have to make the VPN permanent -> now the VPN has to be restarted
> manually after server restart.
>
> Pls. expect final answer by Saturday evening, CET.
>
> My plan:
>
> I will publish (at a hidden place):
>
> a) example configuration from Windows OpenVPN Connect client
> b) ca-yeti.crt self-signed root certificate, which you have to trust
> c) x3d-public.key private key for the Web3D community (not really private)
> d) x3d-public.crt certificate for the Web3D community (signed by yeti ->
> my server will let you in)
> e) ta.key additional symmetric key (must be identical on client and server)
>
> Physical restriction: max. 10 connections at the same time, dynamic IP
> addresses from a private IPv4 range (
> 172.27.224.0/19[http://172.27.224.0/19]
> <http://172.27.224.0/19%5Bhttp://172.27.224.0/19%5D>).
>
> The VPN will be an island - the server will not route that subnet, unless
> from one client to the others (hopefully including multicast packets - not
> yet tested).
>
> KR
> Christoph
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Januar 2021 um 07:38 Uhr
> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]>
> An: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at]>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org]>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
> I am now prepared to have a "client" of your UDP DIS server at hoststar.at
> [http://hoststar.at]. I need things like address and port, per X3D PDU
> nodes.
>
> If there is ssh information for reaching your server network, let me
> know. This is my preferred method. I do not believe I need special
> permission except for perhaps a new user account.
>
> I've never really used a VPN, and will probably need instructions. My
> experience with VPN varies "not very useful" and "OMG, my friends are going
> to steal my files."
>
> John
>
> On 1/10/21 11:28 PM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
> If everything works fine (and if I've understood correctly), then you can
> do tests with multicast IP transport, although you are geographically
> separated.
>
> That's what I would like to try basically
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
> gesendet.
> Am 11.01.21, 05:11 schrieb John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:
> yottzumm at gmail.com]>[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com
> ]]:
> My friends have asked me to set up a VPN on my machine in the past. I
> don't really see the value of a VPN.
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:03 PM Christoph Valentin <
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at][mailto:
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]]> wrote:
>
> What I am going to try is to setup a VPN with OpenVPN and my vServer at
> hoststar.at[http://hoststar.at][http://hoststar.at[http://hoststar.at][
> http://hoststar.at[http://hoststar.at]]], so we can do a test session
> with DIS (hopefully).
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Januar 2021 um 23:13 Uhr
> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com][mailto:
> yottzumm at gmail.com[mailto:yottzumm at gmail.com]]>
> An: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at][mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at]]>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org][mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org]]>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>
> What I was going to do is try to get DIS from GitHub and DIS from X_ITE to
> talk to each other.
>
> John
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 1:08 PM Christoph Valentin <
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at][mailto:
> christoph.valentin at gmx.at[mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]]> wrote:
> ok
>
> let me repeat your proposal:
>
> >>>>> Of the published work available in that regard, we have BS
> Collaborate, DIS, and the Draft X3D Specification for NetworkSensor. I
> think the first step would be to take these, see what they have in common,
> and go from there for deeper analyses.
>
> I think everybody agrees.
>
> So what would be the very first step (before the first step)? Assign
> responsibilities? Create a Wiki? Ask for official decision? Just do it?
> Who? What? When? Create an official backlog? Use the S&P-ARK?
>
> kind regards
> Christoph
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
> gesendet.
>
> Am 09.01.21, 07:40 schrieb Christoph Valentin <christoph.valentin at gmx.at
> [mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at][mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at
> [mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]]>:
>
> Not much,
>
> 1) It's another use case, which has proven it's usefulness during
> SrrTrains v0.01:
> - Customized Client Side Calculations
> ( sent to x3d-public in January 2014:
> https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf][https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf]][https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf][https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf[https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf]]][https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5D%5D]
> <https://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5D%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5Bhttps://areasharpa.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/smuos_03_sema_2018_04_27.pdf%5D%5D%5D%5D>
> )
>
> 2) And an idea (which is not yet settled).
> - idea is to have two levels of identification:
> identify the sensor by "streamName" + "networkSensorId"
> (BS Collaborate: only "streamName"
> Octaga: only "networkSensorId")
>
> 1) the stream = the model = the real life entity
> e.g. "car"
> 2) the sensor nodes themselves
> e.g. "steering", "motor", "doors"
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 09. Januar 2021 um 03:59 Uhr
> Von: "GL" <info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com
> ][mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com]]>
> An: "'X3D Graphics public mailing list'" <x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org][mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public at web3d.org]]>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>
> I am not sure what results you are referring to. Did I miss something?
>
>
> From: x3d-public [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org][mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org]]] On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin
> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 9:21 PM
> To: 'X3D Graphics public mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Re: X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
>
>
> so basically you want to ignore my results?
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
> gesendet.
>
> Am 09.01.21, 01:07 schrieb GL <info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:
> info at 3dnetproductions.com][mailto:info at 3dnetproductions.com[mailto:
> info at 3dnetproductions.com]]>:
> Christoph,
>
> Thank you for the clarifications and your general dedication. I believe
> that little misunderstandings should be addressed before they snowball into
> bigger misconceptions.
>
>
>
> > If we specify a general Network Sensor API, then content can run
> > with any X3D Player that supports the Network Sensor API.
>
> If you read again my last paragraph, I try to make a distinction between a
> multiuser client and a X3D player. In other words, the player is not
> necessarily the client. It appears to be a common misconception that the
> X3D player must also be the MU client, while in truth it really doesn't
> have to. For the reasons previously stated, I tend to prefer that the
> player does not in fact act as the client.
>
>
> > However, if I use the X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon
> > Server, because the protocol is proprietary.
>
>
> That is precisely why I am here. I do NOT want the application protocol to
> be proprietary. And the fact that we still don't have a standard keeps me
> from moving forward, because any development efforts I make may someday
> have to be rewritten once we do have a standard. IOW, I am not a big fan of
> reworking systems. I'd rather use open standards as early in the process as
> possible to facilitate interoperability later.
>
>
> > If the protocol was specified, then I could use ANY
> > server with the X3Daemon Client.
>
>
> Ideally, systems could interoperate, though there are other factors to
> consider. For example avatars must login to authenticate their identity and
> assets, consisting of information that may or may not be available to a
> third party server. But yes, you get the general idea.
>
>
>
>
> > It is not sufficient to specify the
> > fields and the behaviour of the NetworkSensor node. ...,
> > but I had the feeling that you want to
> > omit the specification of the protocol.
>
>
> Read again, I was referring specifically to network protocols. Still, at
> this early stage, I feel it may be a little premature to get too involved
> with an application protocol, that until we get a better grasp of what the
> requirements will be. For this reason, I am of the opinion that fields and
> events should be specified first. Just so that we have something to build
> upon.
>
> Of the published work available in that regard, we have BS Collaborate,
> DIS, and the Draft X3D Specification for NetworkSensor. I think the first
> step would be to take these, see what they have in common, and go from
> there for deeper analyses.
>
> Once we have that settled, IMO, only then should we turn to discuss an
> application layer protocol and its ramifications. GL
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: x3d-public [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org][mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org[mailto:
> x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org]]] On Behalf Of
> > Christoph Valentin
> > Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 5:09 PM
> > To: X3D Graphics public mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D and VRML for multiuser worlds
> >
> > Dear Gina Lauren
> >
> > Please find some feed back *inline*.
> >
> > Generally, please do not judge too hard, I'm not a native speaker and
> still
> > some of my wordings do not fit to the real intention.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Christoph
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >You want to lock in your users. That's not the spirit of open source.
> >
> > For once I was beginning to open up about the inner workings of a
> multiuser
> > system, but surprisingly, you apparently don't want to hear about it. It
> is
> > difficult to talk about open standards for a NSN if we can't refer to
> > actual implementations. It's not like there are a lot of them around..
> > [CV]: I should not have written this. However, I was a little bit
> > impatient, because I have been preaching for years and years that the
> > protocol itself must be specified. It is not sufficient to specify the
> > fields and the behaviour of the NetworkSensor node. Maybe I did not read
> > your words sufficiently thoroughly, but I had the feeling that you want
> to
> > omit the specification of the protocol.
> >
> > Also, who said anything about open source being a requirement? I was
> > actually volunteering closed source information for the benefit of an
> open
> > standard. If you can't see that I was actually "giving" something to the
> > community.. then perhaps I am wasting my time???
> > [CV]: Here I used "open source" and meant "open protocols", sorry, my
> > mistake. And, yes, I also "gave" a lot. Using too much time for my
> hobbies,
> > was one major reason, why my wife left us in 2015 (afterwards the
> SrrTrains
> > v0.01 project fell into hibernation mode due to lack of resources).
> >
> > Finally, if you would like to discuss an application layer protocol,
> maybe
> > look into work that has been done in the past referred to as vrtp and
> x3dp.
> > Not much, but a starting point. So far I have only heard vague comments
> > about SCTP, UDP, etc. (see below)
> > [CV]: I am sure that many people have contributed many parts of the
> puzzle.
> > Now we need somebody, who fits all together (that's not me, is it?)
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > [CV]: I never suggested to specifiy the transport protocol (http, rtp,
> > > sctp, tcp, msrp, sip, xmpp, ........).
> >
> > hhhmmm.. I'm confused, what is this about???
> > [CV]: Let's assume, we specify an "Application Layer Protocol" (let's
> call
> > it ALP in the sense of a "working title"). Probably the ALP will consist
> of
> > the definition of a few PDUs (e.g. in XML, JSON, YAML or similar syntax).
> > Now we have to define, how the PDUs have to be transmitted over the
> > network. Will they be sent as payload in http messages (in the body)?
> Will
> > they be sent as payload in SIP messages (in the body)? Will they be sent
> > directly over tcp connections?
> > To get historically: at the beginning of the IETF they had a great
> > movement. You could get T-Shirts with the meme "IP over everything". IP
> > should connect any network with any network, building the Inter-network.
> So
> > they had to write one RFC for each L2 protocol in order to specify, how
> IP
> > has to be transported over any L2 link/network.
> > I am dreaming of an "ALP over everything" movement.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >[CV]: SCTP and UDP are members of the TCP/IP protocol family. UDP is as
> > >old as TCP, just simpler. SCTP is younger. It tries to merge advantages
> > >of both TCP and UDP and was originally invented to transport SS7
> protocols
> > >(SIGTRAN). SCTP supports 64k streams per association, what perfectly
> fits
> > >to our needs, imho
> >
> > Why are you trying to lecture me about network protocols? And what is it
> > exactly that you are saying or not saying, I find rather perplexing and
> > fail to see the relevancy. Let's keep going...
> > [CV]: I thought you wrote "SCTP is not TCP/IP". I want to stress that
> SCTP
> > actually IS TCP/IP
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >[CV]: Actually I suggested to specifiy ONE AND ONLY ONE application
> layer
> > protocol,
> >
> > No-one is questioning this as far as I know. Isn't that precisely what we
> > are trying to do?
> > Why are you augmenting this in my comments?
> >
> > [CV]: (see above) Maybe I did not read your words sufficiently
> thoroughly,
> > but I had the feeling that you want to omit the specification of the
> > protocol.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >[CV]: The API (i.e Network Sensor) must be specified to run ONE content
> > with ANY X3D Player.
> >
> > Let's be careful here. The X3D player does not necessarily need to have
> > agency over the application protocol. For example the X3Daemon client
> > (sorry to bring it up) is entirely separate from the player other than
> for
> > interpreting ECMAScripts and rendering the results to screen. IOW, the
> > X3Daemon client can theoretically run in any X3D player, regardless of
> > internal multiuser coding, as long as ECMAScript (JavaScript) is
> supported.
> > This makes it very easy for authors to script avatar and object
> behaviors,
> > since it provides direct access to X3D nodes. It is also a reason why we
> > need to define a NetworkSensor node as part of the X3D standard.
> > [CV]: That's exactly what I am saying: you specified your X3Daemon client
> > API, so a content that uses that API, can theoretically run with ANY X3D
> > Player (that the X3Daemon client supports). If we specify a general
> Network
> > Sensor API, then content can run with any X3D Player that supports the
> > Network Sensor API.
> > However, if I use the X3Daemon Client API, then I MUST use the X3Daemon
> > Server, because the protocol is proprietary. If the protocol was
> specified,
> > then I could use ANY server with the X3Daemon Client. It's similar with
> BS
> > Contact and BS Collaborate.
> > Most customers are very sensitive about getting locked in. No matter if
> > open source or closed source. We (my employer) made this experience with
> > railway operators, too.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > GL
> >
> > ________________________________________________________
> > * * * Interactive Multimedia - Internet Management * * *
> > * * Virtual Reality -- Application Programming * *
> > * 3D Net Productions 3dnetproductions.com[http://3dnetproductions.com][
> http://3dnetproductions.com[http://3dnetproductions.com][
> http://3dnetproductions.com[http://3dnetproductions.com]][
> http://3dnetproductions.com[http://3dnetproductions.com][
> http://3dnetproductions.com[http://3dnetproductions.com]]]] *
> >
> >
>
>
>
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